JPEG XL

No, it really can't. You cannot fight discrimination by creating more of it.

You cannot break out of a cycle by continuing the cycle

why not? active noise cancellation works by creating more noise

Unfortunately I don't think I am the best at explaining things. But it's no different than a cycle of revenge

The only way to break the cycle is to forgive and move beyond

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7d/Active_Noise_Reduction.svg

not sure what you mean?

In my experience, putting a conscious effort into more diverse, equitable, and inclusive practices when hiring or otherwise choosing people for stuff, actually makes the end result more meritocratic, increasing the competence of your team.

In the case of racial discrimination they don't actually cancel out but help to reinforce each other stronger. Like revenge.

Resentment both ways gets reinforced because fundamentally it's an unjust action that you are continuing and keeping alive

It's inherently and fundamentally unjust to treat individual people unfairly and punish them for things outside of their control or merit

And you can't fight against that while continuing the cycle

hence breaking the cycle of subsets of the population being excluded for things outside of their control

the subsets that affirmative action might work “against” still get plenty of chances

really, to me, it brings to mind the quote: “When you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression”

That's just my opinion and if my explanation is not satisfactory I understand. I'm trying my best to explain. I don't think most people are against equality.

But some people are more equal

I think most people want individuals to be judged fairly and have opportunities to succeed without artificial barriers stopping children or adults from pursuing their interests and moving up in the world.

Some people have a head start or a rough start, if they have good parents or if they come from a stressful and abusive home, it will be easier or harder for a child to succeed

People of every race come from good homes and from very stressful homes.

If you want kids to have the best opportunities then we need to be the best parents. And encourage everyone else to be good parents.

Poverty and drug abuse plays a role

If the bottom half (50%) of income earners stopped paying income tax, that would only account for 2% of the income tax revenue. But it would be a tremendous boon to the production economy.

2% less income tax revenue in exchange for 50% of people being exempt from the tax. That's an amazing trade.

For some reason though our laws are designed to crush the poor

And make it harder and more punishing for people who are just trying to make a humble livelihood by subjecting them to the same rules intended for the fabulously wealthy.

Our laws are designed by and for the fabulously rich for the benefit of the rich and to the detriment of everyone.

It should be easy and convenient to do the right thing and inconvenient to do the wrong thing. And it's not easy or convenient for the poor to make a livelihood, and it seems that way by design...

We tax the labor too much, so naturally we have inflation and joblessness

Laozi said "if your people are starving, stop taxing their food"

You sure? Income and productivity are very correlated. And if you punish people for being more productive, they're gonna choose to be less productive.

The trick is to make sure you DON'T punish people and that no matter what, earning more always means earning more

So once the taxes kick in they only apply to the income earned above the threshold, not below

Therefore you never have an incentive to earn less to get paid more

Because that would create weird economic incentives and glitches

That's still punishment. You could work double the hours but get much less than double the pay.

True!

Hmm

Perhaps that's the inherent stupidity of collecting revenue from an income tax

Well, there's not much better alternatives. Taxation of income minus investment minus gifts is basically a consumption tax.

For sure it's important to grease the skids of getting people into the productive workforce and artificial barriers at the beginning need to be removed so it's more convenient for people to escape from poverty

Taxing the lowest income earners is definitely doing more harm than good and probably losing out on greater revenue in the long run!

I am not sure elon musk is 350 000 00* more productive than us

It's probably more important to get the unemployed out of poverty than to incentivize working twice as many hours...

Making it easier to get started for people entering the workforce

The income tax should be abolished for the majority of people

Like it was originally promised

involuntary unemployment should be pretty much unrelated to normal levels of taxation I think... well, except for the management overhead taxes can cause for the employer for short-term employees.

well, I mean, he's a fraudster...

Labor should not be taxed if there's an employment problem...

Sure. But various regulations are more of the issue for that...

Just like food should not be taxed if there's a famine

That I will lump together as a tax

Because it increases the expense of hiring

Even if that expense is time and effort and paperwork

It's essentially a tax

Elon Musk is the world's most successful welfare queen

Pretty sure he has multiple countries giving him tons of money and subsidies and contracts

He really knows how to milk out every ounce

Oh, but that is very different, actually. If you tax productivity or consumption, without discrimination, you would largely just extract money from the economy, which allows for more government spending without (severe) inflation. But if you tax specific productivity, or consumption of specific goods, you will warp incentives, which generally harms overall productivity (assuming rational actors with a legal system already sufficiently disincentivising harmful behavior).

That's a strong assumption. There is plenty of mildly harmful stuff (too mild to be forbidden by law but too harmful to be negligible) that is also very profitable. "Rational actors" are incentivized towards such mildly harmful stuff...

That's why liquor and tobacco are usually taxed more heavily than bread, for example.

Taxing the lower half of income earners is going to lead to inflation.

Because it increases the costs of all basic labor

It's like a double "screw you" to the poor

We have to unlock the potential of the poor, not make things even harder.

Inflation hurts the poor a lot more, and same goes for shaving off a percent of their income. It's a lot more of a big deal when you're poor, but after you're already getting the hang of things higher up on the food chain then it eventually just becomes a cost of doing business

I don't mean to downplay the negative effects on business owners...

I'm just saying that it hurts a lot more when you are just starting out.

It should be easier for people to start a business too

There are many artificial and outrageous barriers in the way of economic progress

Progressive taxes and other redistributive mechanisms or measures that reduce economic inequality are generally very good for the economy, even if there are many hardcore laisser-faire economists who are very opposed to it and since Reagan the tendency has been towards less progressive income tax and more regressive taxes (taxes that are proportionally larger for low incomes, such as any fixed-amount tax or taxes on basic goods everyone needs about the same amount of).

sure, but a rational consumer wouldn't smoke or drink if it is bad for their long-term well-being...

depends on how much pleasure they extract from those activities, I suppose...

But my point was more about things like the tobacco or alcohol industry, or let's say some highly poluting production process that happens to be much more profitable than less poluting alternatives. The tragedy of the commons causes "rational actors" to not have the right incentives in such cases...

True, but taxation and subsidies are not the only ways to set those right.

In fact I don't think taxation/subsidies can really solve the problem. I don't really believe it is possible to correct incentives that are fundamentally not the right ones ("profit over people", to put it in left-populist terms) by simply adjusting the slopes of some profit curves here and there. That's like using an automatic lawn mower as a tool to build hospitals and schools, which of course doesn't work even if you carefully prepare the terrain and adjust the slope of every hill and the variety of grass to try to 'incentivize' the lawn mower to accidentally, while it is mowing the grass, pick up bricks in one corner of the domain and stack them in the other corner.

(there is probably a better analogy for what I am trying to say here)

no such thing

Yes, which begs the questions 1. Should people not be free to harm themselves, or to risk harming themselves? 2. Can we trust regulators to be more rational when it comes to decisions for the lives of people they don't even know?

(strictly speaking, “raises” or “prompts” the question)

wsl2 is aggravatingly slow for file IO. I don't understand how this is still an issue that hasn't been fixed yet. Does anyone where know a way to make it not suck? Needs to be relatively normie friendly or at least a one and done solution

from what I recall, they say that it’s very slow when accessing files outside of its own filesystem, but should be fast within it

yeah https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/wsl/compare-versions > As you can tell from the comparison table above, the WSL 2 architecture outperforms WSL 1 in several ways, with the exception of performance across OS file systems, which can be addressed by storing your project files on the same operating system as the tools you are running to work on the project.

yeah, it uses 9p for external file system accsess, but sadly, it's quite critical for a lot of uses (in my case, I want my pops to try and use flowblade which only has a linux build) and copying too and from it's internal storage a lot just wont work out well

The better version

What is so great about the Bible or any other holy scripture anyways? I have seen lots of really cool and amazing books and the Bible seems like it's being promoted by people who don't really understand anything about it.

In fact people seem to believe in the Bible more than they believe in God

The Bible might as well be the same thing as God since they have so much blind trust in it

There are lots of red flags in the text that should tell you not to trust everything it says, too.

A lot of things "God" says and does that suggest it's not always the same entity, that it's a manipulative liar, malevolent and untrustworthy, petty, egotistical, shallow, and very much not divine at all.

And not someone or something that deserves trust or praise or obedience.

Jesus seems to have a very different personality.

A lot of things don't add up. A lot of gospels are missing and destroyed when the "universal" religion was created to literally destroy all other existing sects of Christianity at the time, when it used to be a diverse group of different sects that usually believed in the theory that Jesus and YHWH are essentially opposites.

https://youtu.be/nzZEADmusxE

I've tried GPT-4.1 on ChatGPT. The first task is to compare the opacity of white swimsuit from two artworks comprehensively, and the answer is good enough

the legendary Takeo Ischi (of “Chicken Yodeling” fame) has blessed us with another masterpiece https://youtu.be/YGp0ccLNO7w

(the chicken yodeling, for those who haven’t seen it: https://youtu.be/Ppm5_AGtbTo )

problem in this case is that WSL1 bypasses windows defender scans and WSL2 does not

if you have a way to turn off those sorts of scans then your file i/o perf will increase relatively dramatically

(I don't know how to turn it off)

alternatively, you can exclude specific directories

<@179701849576833024>ban time? <:KekDog:884736660376535040>

Or <@794205442175402004>. Whoever is faster I guess lol

ban time

(never did that yet)

Good thing it's rarely ever needed here

Was at a family gathering thing, what happened?

some weird account posted some kinda NSFW scam server invite in every single channel

Annoying

I would never post any NSFW scam

I share only the great NSFW arts

Honestly they're mostly SFW for me

Share

I've shared some here

ChatGPT says that shared conversations don't include images and files

yet the thinking process could still include some parts ||https://chatgpt.com/share/682aada2-ede0-8009-b93e-29984391fc66||

Is your work related to nsfw arts?

I'm a Master of Arts

Master of ||furry|| nsfw arts

https://freesystemprojekt.bandcamp.com/track/live-at-e-music-wdiy-lehigh-valley-public-radio-allentown-11-10-2001-engels-heij-van-der-wel nice (I especially like the bit that starts near 8:00 or so)

slight https://youtu.be/bfkY-bway_8?t=3m50s vibe

https://youtu.be/XkugpuoXsjo

this is so wrong on so many levels

Weird game https://youtu.be/VeUm7pnaoeQ

imagine if this has raytracing, would be so dope lmao

Do you think raytracing look good on anime based characters

yeah, it can look really nice

ZZZ has ray tracing and it looks great

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvqFkJqHj5U

https://youtu.be/w434qhNJMdw?si=8-GnpjuikBgFC_oF

Though I prefer the Commodore 64 version, from the game Bomb Jack. Instant nostalgia. https://youtu.be/GD0dOyFz2Sk?si=_cyIW2js0w9qZLr-

https://www.phoronix.com/news/Microsoft-Edit-Open-Source Some of the comments here are painful to read.

More nostalgia: https://youtu.be/qrQuR1LHAVI?si=nF3QLoqu0gOJb9CW https://youtu.be/4dh2clt0W1k?si=QLTRsl4edqfFbN8x

Can you quote some highlights?

```Microsoft just invented the wheel! Amazing. This is not out of community love or anything. Its a desperate struggle to emulate relevance. ``` ```They're strategy is to nullify the advantages of using Linux by attempting to clone all the good things about Linux. The problem is their long term Motives are Total User Control. ```

Sorry if you're referring to the open-sourced stuff.

Oh I assumed there were funny comments in the source code but you meant phoronix comments

I apologize.

Lol my bad for misunderstanding

reminds me of https://youtu.be/3OWU1R-_K20?t=23 vs https://youtu.be/vMJjqVB9JCM

1:55 reminds me of JXL art, could probably replicate it

It looks like raytracing is already enabled in that demo

demos can be done with ahead of time rendering instead of real time, but im not sure if this is RT, but then again, if it is, it's still mobile hardware afterall

Mobile hardware?

They will turn off raytracing on mobile port

raytracing overrated

snapdragon has hardware raytracing now

On 8 elite soc?

I dont remeber what all socs have them

So it looks like 8 gen 2 and above supports.

Why did the price of AMD GPUs jump up an additional $400 apiece recently

A few months ago I could buy them for literally $400 less

How does that even happen

For the exact same model

🤯

which models...

new or used

a single company buying them in bulk can cause this

7900xtx I think it's called?

Not long ago I could get one for like $850 before taxes

Do people seriously still mine bitcoin today?

Or what the hell are they using them all for

AI, more likely

yes, definitely AI

7900xtx has great FP16 performance and 24 GB VRAM

gonna love the fact that my gpu almost didnt lose any value in 2 years

just learnt that depleted alkaline batteries bounce whereas full ones don’t https://www.princeton.edu/sites/default/files/images/2017/05/Bouncing-Batteries.gif

oh yeah ever since I heard about that I now test the bounce to see if a battery has been used or not

useful for if there's a random battery laying around and you have no clue if it's dead or not

TIL. Good to know!

wonder what the scientific reason behind it is

I’ll likely still just use my battery voltage tester, which also lets me keep my blanket policy of “not exposing batteries to shocks” so I don’t accidentally do it on lithium ones

Drop a car battery to see if it's full

> not exposing batteries to shocks So I should stop watching horror movies with my battery collection?

https://www.chemedx.org/blog/why-do-dead-batteries-bounce-chemistry-course

(the website’s implementation of TLS seems a bit spotty – here’s an alternative link https://web.archive.org/web/20241102173905/https://www.chemedx.org/blog/why-do-dead-batteries-bounce-chemistry-course )

I've heard about that, I always thought it was one of those fake life hack science facts

https://youtu.be/Bfh-qNXukvo

What are they even using the AI for...

A personal chat bot?

For what?

I don't know but many people buy an expensive graphics card for this

I can't imagine people are hoarding high end AMD GPUs just to cyber with a senile and demented chatbot

People were hording GPUs to buy monkey JPEGs with magic maths equations

elden ring is getting a live action and I am conflicted, alex garland is on it. I dunno how you could make a good movie out of it, and garland is pretty hit or miss. but warfare was a great movie so moderately hopeful

Danbooru is 20 years old later today https://danbooru.donmai.us/posts/1

A highly-recommended corpus for benchmarking

bro drawing hentai for 20 years..

Hmm the artist who drew #1 still keeps drawing sensitive anime artworks

fun: while searching for a C++ implementation of a function I would like to have for experimentation with photon noise, I came across a [paper](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1107/S2059798315013236) titled “A log-likelihood gain intensity target for crystallographic phasing that accounts for experimental error”

of course, it’s an entirely different kind of “intensity target” than in jxl

I've created some templates

any swiss bros around? Gnu taler has come https://news.itsfoss.com/gnu-taler-swiss-operations/

really cool stuff gnu taler is

wrong swiss flag, right off the bat

it’s supposed to be square

in /r/BUENZLI, they would say „Aazeig isch dusse“ for that

I didn't know that 0.0

🇨🇭 Correct here

(Not sure if this is the right place, but OK.)

i had fun watching both

frieren was uncredible good because it was fresh and unique

The input is: not likely to contain AI-generated or deepfake content 2.5%

Did you draw this

Simply asked ChatGPT to regenerate based on this

/!\ scam AD on the server

<:BanHammer:805396864639565834>

<@1028567873007927297> FFT (audacity screenshot) DFT STFT Chirplet Wigner Ville RID (Reduced Interference Distributions) 1000 sample window, rectangular window

What's stft?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short-time_Fourier_transform

Well it's by far the best graph :)

Rust Coreutils finally reached v0.1.0 https://github.com/uutils/coreutils/releases/tag/0.1.0

https://ddinstagram.com/reel/DKTC1yISivs/?igsh=eDlnc3ZyMmIzdXFr

dx.doi.org 🤔

it’s just an older alias > The proxy service (both doi.org and the earlier but no longer preferred dx.doi.org) is accessible over IPv6, and supports DNSSEC. https://www.doi.org/the-identifier/resources/factsheets/doi-resolution-documentation

https://youtu.be/OTJTxolrBIw

Rust depends on LLVM. LLVM depends on...

Rust? <:KekDog:805390049033191445>

It depends on "modern digital infrastructure" like in that graph.

https://x.com/luciascarlet/status/1930614317541474598?t=AupG_4iRGvB8MO3ryI8zgg&s=19

It looks like an iridescent sticker was placed on the screen

yay HDR

I hate how poorly HDR is always implemented

https://openai.com/index/response-to-nyt-data-demands/ > The New York Times is suing OpenAI. As part of their baseless lawsuit, they’ve recently asked the court to force us to retain all user content indefinitely going forward, based on speculation that they might find something that supports their case. the merciless wording 😂

I understand the lawsuit based on IP but why would they need end user data for that?

> they’ve recently asked the court to force us to retain all user content indefinitely going forward I'm surprised they weren't already doing that, given that human produced information is valuable to these companies for training their models, and it's rapidly becoming harder to find human data that hasn't been tainted by AI generated data

I do love his performance in that game, a brilliant mixture of goofiness with some more menacing bits

<@384009621519597581> slightly goofy: https://youtu.be/F8Zw8oNe4Rs?t=7m10s (7:10) legitimately menacing: https://youtu.be/F8Zw8oNe4Rs?t=23m38s (23:38)

also, someone reused samples from that game to make this: https://youtu.be/kzGdXCqCfwg

ooo yeah, these are great

that one reminds me of this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pBiY0CL-r8

I was going to say “I didn’t know that J. Jonah Jameson had become a superhero too”, and then I read: > In the *Invincible* television series and the video games *Invincible: Guarding the Globe* and *Mortal Kombat 1*, Omni-Man is voiced by J. K. Simmons.

oh, Cave Johnson too

https://youtu.be/mhDBWiTfNCU

I actually didn't know Cave Johnson and Omni-Man had the same VA, I thought it was just strangely similar

I mostly stick to characters more within my natural vocal range. like sonic and shadow from these dubs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nrk8sqZfsgI or limmy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fC2oke5MFg

it’s also the actor for J. Jonah Jameson in that clip I sent

all three characters are him

oh wow

<:ReeCat:806087208678588437>

https://tenor.com/usBsk3ubvaz.gif

https://youtu.be/prk2tdAiqGg

https://youtu.be/qBz1X8JPyiM

lots of “news reporter” roles, it seems

The effects are generated by hardware😉 It's a pity there's a 10 mb limit here, my original is 80 mb

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/jun/09/google-foxes-roof-london-kings-cross-office

<@1028567873007927297> can you compress the foxes please

No. We will conquer your puny cities and kingdoms. All bow before your new exalted overlords.

sudo cfox -i google/offices/london/* -o nature/fox_habitat -e 8 -d 0.5

reminds me of this https://youtu.be/AiXVeSlcktY

Wonder if Discord can properly display XYB JPEGs like this one

Heh, it does. Only the blurry image that shows up for a very short time after uploading is bugged

Apparently previews aren't color managed on android

for me on the old android app icc not applied

Clicking to zoom and load the original on desktop froze my client for around 5 seconds

I didn't even know XYB JPEG was a thing...

ICC profiles can represent any colorspace so also XYB.

when crafting the ICC for XYB, we almost ran into the limitations of what it can represent _compactly_ (without a big LUT), though

I have such a love hate relationship with this lol

Tried clicking on it again, froze me for 12 seconds.... Yikes

Internally it's RGB JPEG, remapped to XYB with the ICC, but Discord's CDN assumes YCbCr JPEG, so the WebP preview subsamples the wrong channel

Which reminds me, this should make XYB JPEGs work on Apple devices https://github.com/google/jpegli/pull/135

oh, huh

how do encoders handle that? I assume they're trying to compress the channels as if they're RGB even though the ICC makes it XYB. does that lead to suboptimal psychovisual compression?

like, could it think it's doing a fine job removing details where we won't notice (like removing relatively more detail in dark areas) in RGB space, not considering that it's actually XYB

The correct handling is to apply the ICC to turn it into sRGB, then encode it like normal

Discord is weird because it doesn't do color management, it just applies the ICC to the result

It's why HDR images looked horrid, because it would apply the HDR ICC profile to the tonemapped WebP

Oh, and Discord seems to have special handling of JPEGs. It encodes the WebP at much lower quality, and likely handles it in the YCbCr/YUV space instead of RGB, hence the subsampling bug

so you're not actually compressing better by doing this, since it's still encoded as a proper RGB image?

Do you mean encoders getting XYB JPEG as input, or encoding *to* XYB JPEG?

hold up I forgot JPEG isn't usually RGB but YCbCr

now I'm confused

uhh yeah never mind xD

Though, I wonder if the subsampled B channel was throwing it off https://github.com/google/jpegli/pull/136

https://github.com/AasishPokhrel/shit/issues/1

https://tenor.com/dHpc4POFDUB.gif

It s Been So Long

So I invented an optical vinyl record (why) (Variable density phonogram) All that's left is to invent a player with an optical element and print music on a printer <:Stonks:806137886726553651>

these would be cool for those services that use randomly generated profile pictures based on a hash of the username

I also see a bit of resemblance with my own profile picture

https://www.reddit.com/r/jpegmafiamusic/s/OvCOjhaUO7

<:Poggers:805392625934663710>

it would be cooler if it was used for its intended purpose in music services as the new way to look at the waveform looks interesting, because the spectrogram for displaying sound I'm tired of it

It's called... optical disc...

It has pretty good waveform resolution

Depending on the DAC

well at least it doesn't have any analog wave on it

found a great image An example of how our brain sees things by indirect signs. The division into squares (tiles) actually exists, but these are just scaling (interpolation) errors. If you zoom out, the squares magically disappear.

Its cropped image is used on several websites currently

How is this not nfsw

I don't think anyone said it isn't

I can offer its lossless JXL file

this nsfw

Few porn

Which website? For what purpose

Avatar on various sites like YouTube

Ok

As it appears to be SFW comparing to the avatar here

Put nsfw profile picture there too 🤣

I'm verifying if the original avatar is the reason why I'm getting the shadow ban

Now I can't find my own comments in the default "Top" view

Oh

Too bad

can you see it in newest?

Sure but most of people won't toggle

https://www.threads.com/@riveoapp/post/DLC8hvriSVt?xmt=AQF0Y1KpPD55H-FSASLTfoD6DfTgECKrkMi7uy69aoaMkg

I don't have an iphone so I don't know whether it is true or fake.

I don't get it

Metal effects on iPhone apps

Metal on metal

Liquid Metal

As an AI language model, I cannot help you with that. If you have any other questions on Party-approved activities, feel free to ask!

https://www.reddit.com/r/LiminalSpace/comments/1lheqmu/pyongyang_childrens_palace_pyongyang_north_korea/

In both Chrome and Firefox I encounter the following joke: the site does not load because of cookies. That is, the site just does not open. The only thing that helps is clearing the cookies for this site. What a surreal thing. Out of lazy to do this I have to open it in incognito or another browser. <:FrogSupport:805394101528035328> <:Google:806629068803932281>

sorry new guy here, how do I enable JXL for the iphone 16e?

here it just shows between HEIF and JPG

Unfortunately it's only an option for the 16 Pro, and only for ProRAW at that...

that’s pretty unfortunate

I took another read at it and it was **decoding** support 🗿

Yeah, all Apple devices can *decode* JXLs now, but cameras will probably wait for hardware encoders to become common. Apple probably put it on the Pro because it has so much processing power to spare, even though JXLs can be really fast anyway

anyways, any good bulk converters I can use to JXL-ify my photo storage? (off-phone ofc)

like "select 1 folder to convert" kind of thing?

atm it's mostly in PNG and it's starting to eat space on my drives

I'd actually be tempted to suggest waiting a while, since there should be a new version released soon-ish with a lot of bug fixes and some speed/quality changes

Why are your photographs in PNG?

I converted them from HEIC (because iphone) and thought it was theeee lossless format

also I do a ton of photoshop work and typically save previews as PNG

I was about to bring up that HEIC is lossy, so saving them as PNG isn't a great idea... Then I remembered you want to turn them into JXLs anyway, so it actually works out

Exactly, it's more of an interim solution until i can turn em all into JXL

An Ad blocker advertisement.

and subscription

Wipr 2 does better and only one-time payment

Is anyone making a jxl hardware encoder or IP core for high quality lossy compression for camera sensors?

And is there a "right" way to do demosaicing, or even reversible demosaicing, and store mosaic filter data in a jxl? Is there even any point in trying to encode bayer data as a jxl? Can that type of data benefit from the available compression toolkit of jxl?

I'm sure the answer is yes but you would have to be creative to take advantage of the possible compression to the fullest extent.

Yes, Jon stated multiple times in the past that a hardware encoder for cameras was being made https://discord.com/channels/794206087879852103/803574970180829194/1119299497600745492, and I found this https://discord.com/channels/794206087879852103/794206170445119489/1368471584871940169 by AMD

No idea, probably not, yes it's already been done for the past year by Adobe. Yes. Yes because usually the RGGB planes are separated and either compressed as 4 monochrome tiles or as 4 separate channels, with Adobe doing the first (unfortunately). I wish they had used R Gavg B Gdiff using the kCFA channel type, then you could run RCTs on the channels and do previous channel learning, ect.

https://helpx.adobe.com/content/dam/help/en/camera-raw/digital-negative/jcr_content/root/content/flex/items/position/position-par/download_section_733958301/download-1/DNG_Spec_1_7_1_0.pdf

Yes there's a "reversible" demosaic filter that you can derive the original bayer data from?

Also is it possible or even worthwhile to compress mosaic data in some kind of reversible, demosaiced, chroma-separated space for better compression performance?

Like converting to XYB

Well that's what I meant with average Green and Green difference stored separately

Literally just add them together, half the value and put the difference in another channel, no fancy demosaicing filter

And you've just reinvented RCTs... And XYB...

https://discord.com/channels/794206087879852103/806898911091753051/1344400188499955974

No, the demosaicing is pretty important, since you have to demosaic before you can separate and transform the channels...

No to what part?

It's not that simple.

Demosaicing is a form of resampling the image spatially

I mean... It is... I already did it You can get better results with fancy algorithms, but this is for decorrelation and a preview, not final viewing

Someone should probably write a paper or two on best practices for lossless & lossy compression of bayer sensor data with jxl as well as additional spectral channel data with jxl.

Someone already did write a paper, unfortunately they had no idea what they were doing

Since the existing attempts to do those things were kind of clumsy

Yeah

Yes exactly

I mean it'd help if they actually asked developers or us, instead or just saying they "consulted the libjxl maintainers" without anyone having been contacted

And IDK if anyone ever attempted to encode bayer sensor data in jxl. There's no guidance on best practices or useful bitstream tools

.

Adobe and TinyDNG both have bayer JXL compression

Currently jxl RAW is debayered on apple. Idk how much debayering really matters though or what the differences are between popular algorithms

But if it's a resampling algorithm then there will be tons of different methods.

Debayered is called 'Linear', and it's essentially just a 10-bit version of the normal image

Apple doesn't even give you it RAW, they run processing first

As far as I understand, in modern phones like Apple's iPhones, there is not really a single bayered RAW they would be able to give you — data from multiple sensors is used and processed in complicated ways to arrive at a (not so raw) "raw image".

That's a good point. But for some reason the DNG always looks way better than the HEIF/JPEG which has absurd massive ringing artifacts

Idk if that's even the word for it

Oversharpening

Some ridiculous looking edge enhancement filter

Ludicrously bad

Like what were they even thinking

Probably optimizing too much for bad metrics and just overall using relatively low quality settings thinking it's good enough

So, that's the DNG spec, but there's no guidance on, say, how to effectively use jxl bitstream features to get the best lossless/lossy compression by re-organizing the bayer sensor data. Like which modular tools might be useful.

Or metadata boxes for the jxl container format for containing bayer metadata

HEIC in particular is a PSNR optimization beast so if you look at its performance according to PSNR, it will look great. As long as you don't actually look at the images you get. I suspect some decisions have been made looking just at PSNR plots, causing them to effectively select lower quality settings for HEIC than for JPEG.

Someone posted a picture of the same image in apple dng versus jpeg or heic, I forget which, and it just looks massively terrible, especially with text and other high contrast photos

Because it makes the white edges whiter and the dark edges darker to enhance sharpness/contrast to a cartoonishly exaggerated degree

Yeah I wouldn't be surprised if they sharpen the image before passing it to the heic encoder, to try to compensate for the smooth blurry mess that PSNR-optimizing encoders tend to produce.

Well that's because you can't. You have linear RGB, tiled Greyscale Bayer, or raw Greyscale bayer. Only in Linear can you use things like RCTs, Previous channel properties, ect because it's got 3 channels

Unless there is a standard for a losslessly-reversible debayering algorithm and how to derive the original CFA sensor data from an RGB image?

That would allow you to use all of the jxl coding tools naturally.

At the minimum it would have to work for rggb and rgbw filters too

Again, if Adobe used extra channels and the kCFA type, it would've been perfect

What use case are you going for? It's still a RAW file in the end, so there's no point in doing heavy debayering processing just for a preview

Actually, I'm pretty sure it uses 1 lens as the main lens and the other lenses are used for macro/fisheye shots or for light adjustment or whatever.

Use case would be... efficient lossy/lossless compression of cfa sensor data. By reversibly converting it to an RGB image for easier compression and previewing?

So... Why bother with an algorithm when we can just add and subtract?

If anything, doing proper debayering would just add more entropy by mixing the channels

Well, maybe for both lossless or lossy compression, it might be helpful to separate the luma from chroma?

Theoretically, there's less redundancy and easier compression that way? At least for lossy.

Or maybe there are specific modular tools that are particularly well suited for losslessly encoding cfa data?

I wonder how Squeeze might work for instance...

Squeeze will probably interact with the bayer ordering pattern in a very interesting and perhaps useful way

Again, that's XYB for lossy and RCTs for lossless, no fancy debayering algorithms needed

Um... What? Yeah, it is needed to turn greyscale bayer data into a color image...

> So... Why bother with an algorithm when we can just add and divide the green channels?

All you need to do is assign the RGGB to their respective channels, with green stored as an average and an extra channel storing the delta. An addition and a division instead of running a debayer algorithm for no reason

If <@274048677851430913>'s JXL Frame Stitcher allowed editing extra channels too, I could make an example file that correctly uses RGavgB and a kCFA channel with the green delta... Probably

Hmm... Actually there is the custom PAM format, but I think that's only kOptional and kUnknown

https://github.com/libjxl/libjxl/pull/3611

Planned this long ago but haven't got a time to implement it yet..

But the different color pixels are spatially offset from each other, so you can't just lay the channels on top of each other, without lining them up first, which probably requires resampling to shift by a fraction of a pixel.

That's why you need MORE than just this

You need to spatially align the different channels with each other.

Maybe you can figure out a way to do that reversibly. And then, whether it's an extra green channel, or a white channel, it can be encoded as the delta of the Y or the G channel.

Here's Red, Green Average, Green difference, Blue and the 'merged' result you'd see when opening the JXL. Yes it's not perfect, but it's extremely simple and gives decent results

What's the catch? Chromatic aberration?

No more than you'd get anyway

Lowering the intensity of the Green Average gives even better results, and can be done in the DNG metadata IIRC

Turns out I wasn't dividing it properly, these are more accurate

Mmmm WebP previews

The matrix is a fixed pattern, so you could probably just shift the pixels left/up/right, ect to get a decent result

Hmm... Preliminary testing has the `R Gavg B Gdif` JXL around the same size as the tiled greyscale bayer

My bayer results, encoding the `Gdif` separately ``` cjxl RGavgB.png nul -d 0 -e 9 -E 3 --faster_decoding 1 --patches 0 JPEG XL encoder v0.12.0 7deb57d7 [_AVX2_,SSE4,SSE2] Encoding [Modular, lossless, effort: 9] Compressed to 2726.4 kB (7.388 bpp). 1984 x 1488, 0.096 MP/s [0.10, 0.10], , 1 reps, 16 threads. cjxl Gdif.png nul -d 0 -e 9 -E 3 --faster_decoding 1 --patches 0 JPEG XL encoder v0.12.0 7deb57d7 [_AVX2_,SSE4,SSE2] Encoding [Modular, lossless, effort: 9] Compressed to 853.7 kB (2.313 bpp). 1984 x 1488, 0.236 MP/s [0.24, 0.24], , 1 reps, 16 threads.``` And the existing tiled greyscale bayer JXL

https://embed.moe/auto.gif?q=https%3A%2F%2Fcdn.discordapp.com%2Fattachments%2F806898911091753051%2F1387455219603865701%2FTinyDNGLossless.jxl%3Fex%3D685d67de%26is%3D685c165e%26hm%3D971abcdff6a4874229ccbdba48363b71691ee983fff24930952bb0fdecc32732%26

I am on my way to Daejeon, South Korea, for the upcoming JPEG meeting. Anyone here in Seoul or Daejeon who wants to have a coffee or something with me? I land in Seoul tomorrow.

ooh jpeg meeting takes place in Daejeon this time?

*maybe* I can make some time tomorrow, maybe not

I'm just several thousand kilometres southwards

My flight lands in Incheon at 16:25 tomorrow. I will then go to Seoul and from there to Daejeon.

unfortunate that I'm not available then :(

Wow, let us know what it's like staying in Korea. I heard they really like their soul food.

I mean Seoul food 😹

I'm a vegetarian so I cannot review most of the food

So far it looks nice here

Except they have weird expectations about what I plan to do at a toilet

A warning mainly for some Chinese

Why is there Japanese text as well? 💀

So it doesn't look directed at any group

The Chinese texts are unnecessary as many as possible

In some areas, it isn't common to sit down directly atop a toilet seat.

The royal throne

It's actually kind of a strange technology, when you think about it. To be seated for that activity.

Many people grow up without ever being exposed to that style of toilet.

And they wouldn' want to feel something touching against their bottom, especially if it's touched everyone else's bare bottom too.

Public toilets were generally dirty in mainland China so that's a protection

A protection is now simply a habit

https://www.thiings.co/things

I saw some youtube videos where toilets in china don't have doors. Is that true

I haven't been there for 10 years but they did have doors

I've had IPv6 for a few days and so far the best part of it is that I ran `ip addr add 2001:xxxx:xxxx:xxxx:69::420/128 dev eth0` on my PC and it just became my default IP when connecting to the internet so I'm making people's web server logs funny.

Already widespread on Wikipedia

My devices at home and my phone also use IPv6 by default

fellow IPv6 appreciators 🤝

How does it make logs funny?

by putting funny numbers in them

I’ve ordered an overkill document scanner; I’m curious to see what kind of results I’ll get using it

got a so-called “book-edge” or “zero-edge” model so that I can scan books, including comic books

(the scanning area extends practically all the way until the edge so you can place the book like this and still capture pretty much the entire page: )

Funny number means 69 420?

yes

420 is funny because it means 4:2:0 chroma subsampling

😉

Lol

I asked grok, it said it is related to cannabis

There is a meme about cannabis at 4:20pm, iirc.

Just wait until you hear about Hyde Park over here... Wouldn't reccomend it

I’ve been to Hyde Park, it seemed all right https://sami.photo/2022-10-Londres.html

I meant on 4/20 (Formatted the American way). I went once when some people invited me along many years ago, before I really knew where I fit in. Never doing it again :P

oh :D

patentese is always fun

"a plurality of" is very typical patent lawyer language

That's a lotta units

Intentionally vague as possible without any normal terms like "wire" or even "conductor"

I sure like complaining about things a lot. I wonder what it would be like to never complain about anything...

From now on, I'll try not to complain! ...as much.

the french were getting into your mind

I love the French. Nothing to complain about!

https://youtu.be/ad1zZR6xhZw?t=3m20s

On my way from Daejeon to Seoul. <@206628065147748352> do you happen to be available for a coffee in Seoul later today?

Now on the ktx to Seoul, I will be there in an hour and only have to be at the Incheon airport around 8 or 9pm

I mean 7pm, flight is at 10pm

Interesting preach mobile in front of the Seoul railway station

ah that thing... they're always there at seoul station, not sure why

When I walked past it, it switched from Korean to some bible belt American voice telling me there are only two options, heaven or hell

Pretty amusing

I'm not available today neither, sorry :( I hope you enjoyed Korea despite of this super humid weather, have a nice flight

Yeah it is nice here though has been hot all week

But in the conference center of course they made it too cold so I had to wear long pants and bring a sweater

whoa they do that? quite surprising

Maybe it was a coincidence but I think someone inside the vehicle saw me watching it and thought "Aha a tourist to convert!" and pressed the button to switch to the American tape