JPEG XL

are they pronounced splainz?

splains

is an english name

i don't find it in the oxford dictionary

https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/spellcheck/english/?q=spline

more or less, but that doesn't work if you're speaking english 😛

ah, that's why the color changes in the example above

We don't have an encoder yet that can automatically extract splines, but maybe at some point we can make one (it's not a priority though atm, afaik). It's quite great for fine lines that would be quite expensive to do with DCT.

thanks

https://ocw.mit.edu/courses/electrical-engineering-and-computer-science/6-837-computer-graphics-fall-2012/lecture-notes/MIT6_837F12_Lec01.pdf https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-uniform_rational_B-spline

**\_wb\_** _“Tropical Sunset”_ 2021 image/jxl 120 bytes https://jxl-art.surma.technology/?zcode=ZVJNT8MwDL3nV%2Fi8KZqTNYNdkGACdkAFbUg9VzS0EWqLugxt%2Fx47TabCTnXs1%2Ffh5MH5yn77BhSKwlVUaMxuxda6uvHU1JnYbd5BidfB2c6X3vUd3IinoWztW38AuUQEqRGFEIsZbJqhb0uYLYT7hA%2B4A0yF4qKmQishYW89SBOGJ%2BploSpkUdBBMqBIH4xo0pkwxP9wRIKOIIVsJA5XZhzPYZkU1zwmmy%2FHi8kzEyI3919nKLsK2v5IQV13iIj%2Fkuz0eUsl097%2F1Pk8ZxHDg7yQOUcwiJfhIxk0dAooBUBS9uTtRImF2IHrnL%2BSD3wrDIQ5Z00bkWNadm5TGnaoUJm4QZy4VVO3eupOj3e3o%2FB929nDdXC%2BlnGb4V3YirnTznVUGXP%2FAWURw%2BsQvw%3D%3D

**** _“Tropical Sunset (formatted)”_ 2021 image/jxl 120 bytes https://jxl-art.surma.technology/?zcode=jVNNT8MwDL3nV%2Fi8KZqTtgMuSDABO6CCNqScKxraCLVFbYa2f4%2FTD5Z2FeIWP%2BfZz8%2FJvbGp%2FrI5CGTKpHSQGF6zrTZZbgmUIdtt3kCwl9ro0ibWVCVcscc6KfRr1QAPEIFLRMaY%2BYB3uAVkAKsFbPK6KhJYrCjsM4KObZBRILsIgMNeW%2BAR9jHlj5QPh7hFFFeKQC5%2BQUdUl8CZ1dUlfbNd%2By7%2BdaoGckIXiBNd62jMWUIw4fAb7D14PngOnFz7jkup%2FecJkjKFojqQraZsunv%2FEOrceNoSFIxGv%2FvO4mXs9EQeTpdjxWNnXYToJc6UBzpFk0xbR7RC9dFqT%2Bcgsx%2FDlMZezjB0dm3XOOpLtZ3NY6h1zbPa%2BaOTc7XeA4EiGu9L4IwvYt4XyWZnl8NGdrSOqih189cq3CMcP4D2p%2BjUaZm%2BHem%2FHdXtYJYaTpi0qh8%3D

**\_wb\_** _“Post-Apocalyptic Island”_ 2021 image/jxl 115 bytes https://jxl-art.surma.technology/?zcode=jVNNT8MwDL3nV%2Fi8qVqStYMTEkzADqigDSnnioY2Qk1Rm6Ht3%2BOkLU1D%2BThUiu337Jfn9EaZXL6bEhglQuV44DS%2BJDupitJgksdkv30GRh4bJbXJjKo1XJC7JqvkU91ClFAKEU8oIeoVXuAKKAFYLWBbNnWVwWKFYV9heHRBgQHvIoAIDtK4Pn0CAScL%2BEpYjADmRY6x7gFhw57%2FB5uF8zbJlBHBOuB0EvFuD0fvZmen1UGxdHg7Q6ZzqOojuqV02%2BH%2BoRIT4n6HqXGsHXz9UaTLVMASYi%2BP4FREKaIj3yefcounOKi4PqMVqFeejPTkDmr7qtLKfL%2FKIMBOxyXQid4UP5ZMUoHf1iWZjc16Jxj1aG4BjM64w%2Bbd4WTWAT7sZY9LqSst298WImw8fQbuP5A5iuHBa2Dcf0GW%2BgMzDogb5H0C

That looks poggers <:Poggers:805392625934663710>

You can get some good stuff on this image just by doing some lazy RCT changes https://jxl-art.surma.technology/?zcode=jVNNT8MwDL3nV_i8KZqTtgMuSDABO6CCNqScKxraCLVFbYa2f4_TD5Z2FeIWP-fZz8_JvbGp_rI5CGTKpHSQGF6zrTZZbgmUIdtt3uCKvdRGlzaxpiopeqyTQr9WDfAAEbhEZIyZD3iHW0AGsFrAJq-rIoHFisI-I-jYBhkFsosAOOy1BR5hH1P-SPlwiFtEcaUI5OIXdER1CZxZXV3SN9u17-Jfp2ogJ3SBONG1jsacJQQTDr_B3oPng-fAybXvuJTaf54gKVMoqgPZasqmu_cPoc6Npy1BwWj0u-8sXsZOT-ThdDlWPHbWRYhe4kx5oFM0ybR1RCtUH632dA4y-zFMaezlDENn13aNo75U29k8hlrXPKudPzo5V-s9ECii8b4Ezvgi5n2RbHZ2OWxkR-uoilI3f63CPcLxA2h_ik6dlunbkf7bUd0OZqnhhEmr-gE

Case in point, RCT 7 instead of the original 1

**nwoeanhinnogaehr** _“Smokestack Sunset”_ 2021 image/jxl 31 bytes https://jxl-art.surma.technology/?zcode=c8osSUktKMlQMDTgCs9MATOMTLg8UjPTM0og7CDnEAVDEy6uzDSFZAU7BQMuBQUgM6Aotcy1qAgqoKCgq%2BBelJiSmZpXoqBrCBUJB5uSmqJgCNHjp%2BvniqQBLm2ELqBrCAA%3D

**nwoeanhinnogaehr** _“Abstract Haze”_ 2021 image/jxl 41 bytes https://jxl-art.surma.technology/?zcode=ZY7LCsIwEEX38xX3BwaaINWVUKXWVSkiZF3M2Abqgxj6%2FcakXbkZDvfcGebggpV3GKEUGWd%2FUOgNncUNY8h8OV6hFZ18%2F5Du9QErvUuDyN1xwx4FARE7L3Pt%2FRIAjMb31skzxPqSVPNQTRN03jBsTKyr1ZoVo2u5raPjfCvZ9JRYbP8jLukL

**nwoeanhinnogaehr** _“Abstract Axis-Aligned Cubism”_ 2021 image/jxl 46 bytes https://jxl-art.surma.technology/?zcode=jU%2FNCsIwDL7nKfIChbVW9CRMGXga4oQ8gI1bYQctdQfZw5t1eihD8JTvJ99HsvfR8T12uAHyTqYujIUj%2B7aLMz4fLgKgeTyZXwzgb3jFHRpAFDjSKESvhSEqbDhikfDk1cmbee4m%2FxR4qEKQna%2BY5FrVVaZN0XJoy75HnYmUzmSHyv5bYH4U6PkdUkQS3X7eIbSQlyoNi7A2S02t4A0%3D

**nwoeanhinnogaehr** _“From Structure to Chaos”_ 2021 image/jxl 48 bytes https://jxl-art.surma.technology/?zcode=jY7BCsIwEETv%2BxXzA4GkGvEkVCl4CmKFfIBd20APNcQepB9vmuIhFMHTzryZXfboQsND6LAn65o4lSy2dGbXdmHR19MNSlP9fDG%2Fmcg9cMcBOwKinOwUjZLRAQI1Byx6zkzKdPJ5mvKL57HyPna%2BlYSNMFXG5tVybMu%2BR5FBm97kBmLz9wEpf5xQlK9LWnW0XjMR4Qc%3D

aka "Driving on a Rainy Night"

**nwoeanhinnogaehr** _“Diagonal Inverse Reflection”_ 2021 image/jxl 32 bytes https://jxl-art.surma.technology/?zcode=C89MKclQMDQwMuHySM1MzyiBsIOcQxQMDbmCC0tTU6tSubgy0xRqwmsU7BQMuBQUdBWCU0vALJCwH0wYWQIs5afr5wqXA8k6lqU75uQoGBpZoAvpgsQA

**nwoeanhinnogaehr** _“Mesh Nebula”_ 2021 image/jxl 40 bytes https://jxl-art.surma.technology/?zcode=C89MKclQMDQwMuHySM1MzyiBsIOcQxSMzLiCC0tTU6tSubgy0xQCilLLXIuKFOwUDLgUFHQVglNLwCygVE14DVQYWQIi5YeQQpUES4frhocjyYPF%2FHT9XFHEQPocy9L9tIHiumYmWMWRhAkZgcMEoMkA

**nwoeanhinnogaehr** _“The RGB Brick Road”_ 2021 image/jxl 40 bytes https://jxl-art.surma.technology/?zcode=dc7BCoJAEAbg%2BzzFvICgi%2BwxMIg8VeBhz4GTDojVMkmFD99ma2ra7Z%2F5P4YxnEuJUahiSImLUj45u96IngRrlpwuTsSwt0y1HIXPNWoAPuEdV6gA0UftImKAGQmGXXbFw5vRqP04tR4cLDUbax0b1m%2BYNEVSVZOl061pf%2BT8aE93c7qMO2626QIffRJE6n%2F57Yb7fXoB

**nwoeanhinnogaehr** _“Unfolded Box”_ 2021 image/jxl 46 bytes https://jxl-art.surma.technology/?zcode=fdDfCoIwFAbw%2B%2FMU5wUENenPTWASeVWRwa4DTzoQq7GkwodvW1ulSXffzvfbGYzxXJYY%2BGEEKfGilK%2BcXa5ED4JdsscpLLjM6axcBBvBqZYHyU81TgD4EW84x2AMiDaPQpURPcxILTNZNXenvs5W9rUVW0HNUgjl%2FPdYw7gp4qrqDJVuWduTbml3pun6lw5jw9kqHeD6AjMfRjl6s3%2BtKz8vuPQE

**jjido** _“Comb”_ 2021 image/jxl 42 bytes https://jxl-art.surma.technology/?zcode=c8osSUktKMlQMOIKLixNTa1K5QpyDlGw5PIvykzNK0ksyczPUzDm4spMU6hQsFMwNOZSUICyjQ2AbAUFXYXg1BIFCBsoUwlThcSHqkRXDVURUJRa5lpUBFSHEAYpdCxLd8zJQREEqq4Jr0FTCTPUCEUMpNQPUyl2xSDR8NTM9IyS1BSg39GdCmMBAA%3D%3D

SICK

Give it a try yourself 🙂 The online tool makes it relatively easy, just click any of the links above to have a starting point. Or this one: https://jxl-art.surma.technology/?zcode=jZKxDoIwEIb3PsW9AElb2oqLgw7uasJsoEoXY0wHfXsPKGeFimx333%2F%2F%2FUfoYXcCwbbO1%2FbuGxCcMXeBCjZIAbB8YsmxBMig7GBfZUGvSMemxCbTvO%2B7Oeuujbc1jmuCR%2BsxiJOrjdCDJ%2FTCFAEQksYQIpgXKoKfdUJ%2BYRKM4iNhuEjpqYKmF5qUKiZSa9s%2FzrWzN4%2BlTAwEdy55QpyLjcxiLZPygvi5jDT%2F%2Bbn9ePRnk0cI9ndVwHpl2NJDy9FmekHRbPIMemjsDQ%3D%3D

what's the best browser to use?

for making art anything recent should work

for viewing the resulting jxl files, latest chrome or firefox nightly. both need flags to display jxls.

Firefox. All other browser are either from Google or Apple and both of them are very evil.

I usually use firefox

**The Shaman** _“Rule 30 Gone Wrong”_ 2021 image/jxl 72 bytes https://jxl-art.surma.technology/?zcode=hZC9DgIhEIR7nmJegAQweFdZmNiehQW1OTHSnMZQnG8vJ%2F9H1G7nYzK7w%2FFp9GTP1twnCLI39qIf9oaOEHPFCzswArhxCKMXii6aCubRB46O8CABCqXAZaFP2iLavRJSrhKLuIEOh4KkFRnEGFkjt7cgYRP7ldzE5GOdfXZeyXm81EuR4xbQ8f5L0%2FaCpvtYF5%2BrfwxAbPqmd1k72bYFXO%2F6c2Fyxfc3

**ziemek.z** _“Rule 34”_ 2021 image/jxl 32 bytes https://jxl-art.surma.technology/?zcode=VY6xCoNAEET7%2B4ppI4ieSRdIEUhrkXyB4J63cKicK2fy9dmICaab3Tfw5srS0ige1hh2eOKC0gBFhvscCMcTuoEmeIqE8wFZoVB79dYDcjxItvwBeX1Tltv18Y%2B%2Fl6pWA%2Fcs3AR%2BERLrhAYT951ak2chjLxQQCMQT6C%2BxeDW6DhOgjik35pFjbasKrN37O1v

Someone had to do this ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

*(look at the title)*

**\_wb\_** _“Obfuscated Compressed Rule 34”_ 2021 image/jxl 27 bytes https://jxl-art.surma.technology/?zcode=c8osSUktKMlQMOTyL8pMzStJLMnMz1Mw4uLKTFOoVLBTMOBSUAAyK6BMBQVdBb9wODM4tQSbCpgwjG3IBQA%3D

I seem to have found an image that appears completely differently in the JXL art editor vs if I use djxl on the command line. Not sure what's going on here, maybe integer overflow? Width 837 Height 402 RCT 3 Squeeze - AvgN+NE 40150700

how it looks in the web editor

and decoded with djxl

Yep that would be something that produces overflow

We changed some overflow behavior recently, which is why you see different things

Technically, such a file is not a valid bitstream - the values are supposed to fit in an int32_t to make a valid bitstream. Jxl_from_tree doesn't check that though

Previous versions of the decoder would clamp values when overflow happens (saturating to the min/max int32_t can represent)

Current version just lets things overflow because when overflow happens, it's an invalid bitstream anyway

(letting them overflow is slightly faster)

So in the future, is there a chance that image might fail to decode?

It's technically not a jxl image and decoders can do whatever they want with it

Show whatever pixels, refuse to decode, explode, whatever

(for security reasons we try to make sure we don't do the latter)

this looks really good actually

It's not necessarily going to look the same way in the future

interesting unpredictable decoder-dependent image

nice, thanks for the explanation!

It's basically the same thing as a corrupt png: some viewers might show something glitchy, others might show parts it knows are ok but not the corrupted part, others might just show an error message saying the image is corrupt

Well, now I need to make a file which renders two completely different images based on the decoder...

Strictly speaking, a decoder is allowed to use int16 arithmetic on that specific image, because it is signalled that int16 is fine

(we are lazy and assume we can signal that bit for bitdepth 8 images)

So if it would actually do that, then the overflow arithmetic would certainly be different

**nwoeanhinnogaehr** _“Abstract Forest Fire”_ 2021 image/jxl 41 bytes https://jxl-art.surma.technology/?zcode=C89MKclQMDQwMuHySM1MzyiBsJ0yS1JSC0AyhlxBziEKhiZc%2FkWZqXkliSWZ%2BXkKxlxcmWkKyQp2CgZcCgpAZkBRaplrURFUQEFBVyEcbFpqioKuIbqIIURPOFC1kYGJBaYGkAtAgkBFfrp%2BrnBTUZWZYIqZcgEA

can you share the jxl file?

oh yes, my bad, one moment

ty

<@!794205442175402004> sorry, but your compressed "rule 34" breaks down when initialized with something else than a single white pixel at the end of the first row... https://jxl-art.surma.technology/?zcode=TY6xDoJAEET7-4qpiQZBaws_QAsK60OWMPFyR45NAL_ekxChezOzmZ0btZFeOxTmESlerTJ4lMawxYwrTgZIOK0IHHF__rESTZxEnoGeSuv4EWgnaBkHRQwjRqb-3qXyGaHF2FEFPSdxwwEWNfVn186-3gheBljfpIoost4uZpZvS8rL7n-x8JqcF7FN26vCfAE

Real, Genuine Rule 34™️ behaves like this when initialized with the same first row (and is actually *smaller* than yours as a PNG 😉): https://jxl-art.surma.technology/?zcode=fY4xDoJAEEV7TvFbicRdtTOxMLGl0BOADO7EzS5ZxgCe3gUh0cZu5r-fmXdiqagRA50kXGPAESoBNikuT0vY7XH31MJQIBxWSDcRxl4-94AMV5J5HkGWnyPL9BT84mWLr6YP7Fi4sPwiiCHUHFpB8B06jkKNJScDfI3OsBAa7sm2axQoWca4tMXtAe-iXuGqeCIQzd0pXFz76KPV9ltXL7ofptRf2zc

Right. It was overcompressed.

**jjido** _“Light pool”_ 2021 image/jxl 60 bytes https://jxl-art.surma.technology/?zcode=c8osSUktKMlQMDTgCnIOAVF%2B%2BSU%2BicUlXI45BRmJXFyZaQrJCnYKRlwKCroKwaklQCUGBmCOY1m6Y06Ogq4hWFElUBFIHMisgDKRFBlCueGpmekZJakpIF1oaqEWQTgoapGE4AaBXKILdAoXAA%3D%3D

**Retr0id** _“Mario Jump”_ 2021 image/jxl 1129 bytes https://jxl-art.surma.technology/?zcode=7Vy9btwwDN7vKdSpQNAilm2dz0v3Dp36BEGRAhmKAm2G9O0bJNadf0SRpn4syc50J9onmfz4kaLo3N%2BJr88f%2F4oH8evxk%2Fj28Ofp9wdxd386Pf0UP8QXUZ2EGD7K149vX%2F69flHy%2Fet1oDt3w4AQn8X3x2dRq%2Fo6Mlx0bvrr0O3OqhkN3oYbNRl%2BE7xMpr79LWec3VQrtRBdhc2lMQj1r1ZGmb5V9kaxbUnThV064AL7%2FNgUkMyixEE0tiRtruHGqXWpmtAL6pRdUeeqYymCokpIujF4qpSgo124kxEQlZlBUnHE5NSmL1AyCFJXOYM6e%2FMGHQRnnKVdZMFUG5Cu%2Ft2qcaGYpbevNRygdZT1SctTbeNq9BydBQ904GNbxAllDCh49QWNCs0ruAdw044sY9wK5GiSXPjoAagDULvaABFj8QGdEPn2QEPjRxiGpgsfBtu2M7FY2%2FV7whEzqwOFLjgaxHPDrEx5IKWUQiHkAOa%2FSuIhn08YOJUn2GgikWpP6RBnI%2BKzJuh%2FfREQiWRMSwh52PWWl04lW9ogg5dpxq3Aqy%2Fo%2BlDPlZoD6ERylsbqYSUPZ4l3%2FJOZt3hCOlfvZXG9Qw5XHWan5K3LMk2GaCCzGfOsqNzTbEdcH1wUBX2wdCmZjtDbemR7idzWM57RX2GydapMmta0sqwtJebg5kkgmZtHmOcidfZAuvDHhbC2EWtaxJsjSNZpIShQgw8LWESqhRVgtVAQTBAjZOuc%2BrUVExbOwMyElTIEjxuhkBtHuISxjpWUP1aK22i1DdrIaSHu%2BNxNCY2a8G4r3PSxSZdck2SzajznRZMgWP02eU7MTT6X8sB0uEOy09KAMSR08F8BoUANYAeycLrBqB6NRgSul5G5PjC%2B97Rvp%2BYsMYCMGNRD9cA5tJvkhWQtSewV02zRS92zcBqyVomlqreof6A5KqCZUpiVnmewmdOZWfmpYAoAkrUnAAXq2Es%2Ff2VtI73W%2B4OsMQY4sfQSL%2B8SymfeEF54wYwPI49QZptzMyiTs0%2BXZ0vQH%2BJ28%2BXvO%2BGPffPzHX%2BwZ%2Bu%2FsDCgjiPekLYP1N63DSTo7KYSYLfEmlpc0X2wUiQIwtKlZDwy6%2FFbdPi9X9vPXpwda8rY2gc09oHGm01DgK4VuEMfozyfVlcxgZUQzwMG1Tb21vMe6sXsa5q6LEgHZ7CC3PLUCLmh1GZVqN1UsHQzYECmjYoMoCsvHlwQRrQ%2Fq80Gvu2NxC87%2BNDUzH67XQ9OaEuVRrLBhQMPoL05bE9fwSM1sgOiQMPYRwd00WUCITTRonms9U0QKBCSuARuoaDZNRozovU%2BF%2B6L4X9YwsF8WyZVakWPenywEuZXrCQvDLUHC7pEaAB9bgdenPFComEkQGA0jD12BmgtdqtKShCC4tJqLcd9sltAXUpzTg822zgtes8MnWfGvjOg66wo50C5kfPKdqCNvTXJ6%2BtTMaxHDOcsYnOiPV5KtSEqzEtlVOfmZaPSUj%2FOP27wEyN9rywo2pD8DC0uKo7LFlkfDBqfPGVvyoVgoyGTmr0xnyYRaBtbt4DGrX25QL97D%2FACYJaas6ZmJLLu5kjP2bJAh1Um5qYes6w%2FpCqs3cAJq3sjkZCoAkSz4evX%2Fw%3D%3D

There's definitely room to optimise the decision tree even further...

right now its a pretty naive binary tree, with identical branches pruned

is this one of these where simply cjxl'ing would be more efficient

yeah

cjxl ends up w 355 bytes

heh, yeah, this wasn't intended to be efficient at all

I get "Cannot read property 'byteLength' of undefined" when I visit the surma jxl-art site now.

Me too, in chrome

Mobile chrome that is

In Firefox it is fine

Desktop chrome and firefox also fine

new item in the jxl-art toolbox incoming: https://github.com/libjxl/libjxl/pull/247

https://c.tenor.com/smRKg55yVD0AAAAM/futurama-zoidberg.gif

FYI `jxl_from_tree` is happy to overwrite its input if called as `jxl_from_tree image.txt image.txt`

as I just learned

(no big loss)

Now it shouldn't 😉 https://github.com/libjxl/libjxl/pull/284

No art?

needs some spline art

https://smallfile.ca/animal-locomotions/

From the AV1 discord: It is time for a new "8MB Challenge" however this time we will be testing the limits of AVIF image file format. But to make it more interesting, we will try to fit the image inside a discord text message. And I mean text image, by using base64 you can fit the raw data into a single message which has a limit of 2000 characters. Winner gets picked by voting and receives the "8MB king" role To start things off here are the rules: 1. Image must be in AVIF file format. 2. Image must be Base64. 3. Image must not exceed 2000 characters (this means the image itself must be under 1482 bytes due to base64 encoding) 4. It must have a header inside the message 5. It must open in Chrome or Firefox by copy and pasting the message in search box. 6. It must be submitted before 2021/08/25 Here is a link to one of the encoders: https://github.com/AOMediaCodec/libavif Everything else is up to you, if anyone has questions, send them to DM. May efficiency be on your side (attaching instructions by 190n on how to convert image to Base64)

I wonder what we can do in 1482 bytes of jxl...

way more than you can with avif <:kekw:808717074305122316>

<@!228116142185512960> could you update the jxl art tool so we can use splines in it?

``` Width 1024 Height 1024 RCT 1 Bitdepth 10 /* glowy outline */ Spline 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 -1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 20 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 -5 0 0 0 50 80 140 120 230 80 200 970 50 850 350 650 650 350 500 500 350 350 650 650 690 650 880 80 770 120 800 650 900 550 EndSpline /* dark copy */ Spline 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 -1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 -4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 50 80 140 120 230 80 200 970 50 850 350 650 650 350 500 500 350 350 650 650 690 650 880 80 770 120 800 650 900 550 EndSpline if c > 1 if x > 0 - W 1 - Set -511 if c > 0 if y > 0 - N + 1 - Set -511 if y > 0 /* cellular automaton definition: */ if N > 0 if NW-N > -1 if N-NE > 0 - Set 0 - N 0 if N-NE > 0 - N 0 - Set 0 if NW-N > 0 if N-NE > -1 - NW 0 - Set 0 if N-NE > -1 - Set 0 - NE 0 /* first row initialization */ if x > 511 - Set 300 - Set 0 ```

huge splines like these take ages to paint, but it does seem to work in chrome

data:image/jxl;base64,/wr6H0GR2GMQAJQCxgFA3RgvlozCBYqxMTZ0iEiYAYCGYZkMBJkGwcp/3kS/xyf8qU06DiZ8hTDhLuEDV1jmuKKpTQwGdcY6GmHc3EAkNvsyiZmtRPC+NjUN+tx7vol+j0/4c/QpHEz4CmHCB37pr7DMcYWYchYM6ox1uD0BuS2yVDZ/SDMDX59LOELmrR546hBS8P1pTRV8f27H+x8z4rEAVqs1a4CCAjAAADckCQcA

ouch, yeah, it’s slow

I wonder how much faster we can make it

<@!794205442175402004> I’ll trade you an update to v0.5 for a PR with updated documentation for splines 😉

probably around 100x, we can just pre-draw splines to a separate buffer and then blend them

why would that make them so much faster?

because now we run the spline rendering code once *per line* for all the splines *in a group*

… oh

<@!794205442175402004> https://jxl-art.surma.technology/ updated!

(might even be every spline *in the image*, which means we render the splines O(# lines * # groups)...)

**Surma** _“Stolen Piece of Art for Testing Purposes”_ 2021 image/jxl 221 bytes https://jxl-art.surma.technology/?zcode=3VI9b4MwEN39K25OhWKTEKBDh1aROjE0lZgtPhKrFCPqKKW%2Fvj5svqokA5lSLKR353fvnu4ci1QdgFF3TV4zsT8og99e3oGRZ6HSrGrvCVkuYF%2FIUwPyqApRZrBYkl2FiID%2BGNDZR9e2Gu4NGhQcZo2w%2BTY6I7M9eAaQVsajEBhBttbyrhVf9WmXUgh92pM9A1cabzwrogEmLIfi35O6%2FGZSEJoAcRD0vXx%2FsBDQgRKipsbbMrXrxFWnvP6ARFbNf16zs75F4t63DCBySOAJzEB18K0DQ9ezgdheIN5lSr9t1jOTEVOHzShEegQPffGknPyh65eWZEVxLHgN%2FKjkJ1eyhDTLRSmUkOUjPj%2FbJJr2jGIHM87QB5NOtJ146bpPM9EovlQVXVEZ2p%2FTGVlqheKrfi7WnbG9HcaWi%2FpLQS1P0I6KF%2BKH48RGA8N1djvrBFeUTmL6Cw%3D%3D

https://github.com/surma/jxl-art/pull/6

pretty

now we just need it to decode faster, the rendering is very slow when splines are this big

**\_wb\_** _“Spliny Snake”_ 2021 image/jxl 121 bytes https://jxl-art.surma.technology/?zcode=xdHBCoMwDAbge54i9yEk1epOO2wMdtaBD7B2MzDEQ9%2BfxVqh9OphLYWPNv0hZBQXJjxbgoeXzxQirxKcX%2FSeGWBYvjJ7QF0VIx3YJoaYP2fo35hxrBcm2FJo9ZbYFe6SObNRm%2BS2cJvV7K7VdbItbLOa3Y1aD8B9dmly0N%2BeyCBvfOFFm69w8EFnSStHPOnbDw%3D%3D

it's fun to play with, but the decode speed (especially with the wasm decoder) makes it less fun 🙂

Also, Firefox uses multi-threading and decodes much faster (I think as many times faster as there are free threads, because they are fully loaded), so I think it's still worth considering something similar in Chrome's implementation

tbh we can do much better than what you can do with any amount of threads by being a bit smarter at decoding time 😛

Yes, but it is not only here, similar difference also on all other JXL images

Like: <https://old.lucaversari.it/hdr/smaller/ClassE_LasVegasStore.ppm.png/orig.jxl> 50-78 ms (Firefox), 480-640 ms (Chrome)

And this is especially noticeable on big lossless images

how did you measure?

but yes, it's something we should do at some point - as well as a webp mode *in the decoder* that ought to be quite a lot faster

My tests may not be entirely accurate, but I notice it even without them, as well as the load of threads It might be worth doing tests of the decoding speed between browsers to make sure that sometimes the difference can be very large (up to the situation that in Chrome it can be below the comfortable viewing of some images)

I just look at the loading time via devtools

great, thanks 😄

Or for example this lossless image, the difference is noticeable even without timers

if you want to play with splines: thinner splines (e.g. https://jxl-art.surma.technology/?zcode=C89MKclQMDQwMODySM1MzyhRMAYynTJLUlILQBKGXFzBBTmZealcCkBgoGAExGRDqBkUmQI3gwJTIGbomVHiF6gpwJADYTDbEo1tZIBQA2K75qVAw5JLVyFcQVvBkAsA) render faster than thicker ones, so it can be good to first figure out the control points and then play with the thickness

(change the sigma to 10 and it takes much longer to paint: https://jxl-art.surma.technology/?zcode=C89MKclQMDQwMODySM1MzyhRMAYynTJLUlILQBKGXFzBBTmZealcCkBgoGAExGRDqBkUmQI3gwJTwGYYGigYUOwZYMCBMJhticY2MkCoAbFd81KgQcmlqxCuoK1gyAUA)

a colleague of mine played a bit with splines, this is a 187 byte jxl file

Random idea: shall I make a 'prize role' called "Artist" and do a jxl art compo where people can submit entries and we vote a winner who gets the role?

Could be a regular contest so over time more than one person can get the role

Let's say we do a bi-weekly competition, and if there are at least 5 entries, we do a vote and the winner gets the role?

Made a <@&878598897793114122> role

August 2021 compo

10 days to make nice art. Let's go! https://c.tenor.com/FMrNduz4M6wAAAAM/lets-get-this-party-started-woo.gif

**Jon Sneyers** _“Pink Glow”_ 2021 image/jxl 99 bytes https://jxl-art.surma.technology/?zcode=rZAxDsIwDEV3n%2BLvVZDTNKVdGEAIJgZA6gFIoJFQ1aELt8cJQbC3ieI8f9t%2FMG3D5Pw49dBMdBmfYfAEOQY85yaPcgEPvZCH4pWZadO0jJZtYvnl8Y%2Fb3FNLT5P1UrjOHHX752OyvhbWDNB%2BcHn9ROfdFbqicMcNG%2BgILwEmhZOkMaqkdrHMUe98ePSTd9%2FC4ZgHOhSo%2BDNawAq9AQ%3D%3D

Splines are nice for signing art 😅

Big splines take insanely long to paint

https://jxl-art.surma.technology/?zcode=pVO7DoJAEOz3K7Y3lyyP49FYaEysLNSEDxCUSwyhoPHv3T3uYGuAQOaGydzsAI1rpx4TIoJr5z79NOOTm9pu9E8A4DF-3dAB8mEyTJC2n95klwNmc5A9JkkIYhfGbnAx6TwNkVwe14JtmNISpoGvBAeeOcwiLzjyrMkDXwoOPGvRRl6w0hdKXyj_UvmXKk-l8lSRZ01Nq0bZ1GorlSaqOfkyOSdfHHO7tmBp3dWqRgqVrFDtlCq9TKWbihNK-tiaNB5bqEODl6ENnyzA_fzENAH3xhce0YMfAwKDN17K3Xi2YVZMDTb-R-haecG8wgNvDn8

'Rorschach spline'

**\_wb\_** _“Nested Blue Labia”_ 2021 image/jxl 86 bytes https://jxl-art.surma.technology/?zcode=C89MKclQMDQwMODySM1MzyiBsCMinbi4ggtyMvNSuRSAwIAyCDYDaDAVTLGghiG6hqToUdA1w2GOKdBLQG%2BB2eZAtqkBQtwSyjZGEwepd81LgQYuF1dmmkKygh3QQCCjEszQVfADuhAmYQjkB6eWgMwHy4D44UCSCwA%3D

It could also be called 'Sea shell necklace' if you want a less NSFW title

splines make it too easy to do curvy stuff

**\_wb\_** _“The Male Gaze”_ 2021 image/jxl 337 bytes https://jxl-art.surma.technology/?zcode=7Zcxa8MwEIV3%2F4rbjeFOki1rKbRQmqlLBrdz7SaGEDqYQv99JVk1Z2NDih3woGR5Ojkv4vM7X1K1dXcGQsTk0LSncwcCVZm8vT8lyfHr0l6bBOwrk4Br3sEE9%2BNCTucrXYRBkCYPWnr9fK0DOA5wizOXO%2FHwYaC16NChYxhlr5WtK6vnMcYczrpo1EMONeEkhzGGyyZFiNtALugyxPNuFPOdeGwTQNe1GsOpmC6CnsUYm3lxqJAkHKaKX0SC%2F3scDgRdVy8TjA%2FEiYm0HUsitK%2BQoyjahUKMv3BuTSEjqTVOIqkwTpdbT%2BJIlmy8kGELgXfN5G5QbpFJk1teFOAZTrKwO1TwHWIz3DD9dyNK%2Bwk5mvleEisrdrliNsT9Jf9mGt9d6E%2FL7m77CR%2FwAJRkcGw6yHIcahhqrudc7cfXrKis6D0zePw%2BVemrpWlXbuvl4K9ygKHy%2F4CbGlIxrWRi7MS3ZChA6jj8Ag%3D%3D

my most arty and probably controversial/NSFW piece so far

back to coding now

**\_wb\_** _“Bright Eyes (the Alien from Uncanny Valley)”_ 2021 image/jxl 175 bytes https://jxl-art.surma.technology/?zcode=7ZOxDoIwEIb3PkVfoORKobSLg4mJOwM6C0oTYxx4%2F3gHJzQOLsWEQRj4KMef46PXhHbopQYAcezCrR8mPp33Qoj6eQ%2BPTkg8FGRaQso5xlQbydCEyiam5ACyKCY2xGbigrgCcXi0rPBv8nuKZWNjV5FJx4YXk7FKWKP%2FYoWQfI1OVE6t6FSVpgTSOXKJ%2Bqxjxbz%2BQ5UbyVCGPGYmtRXc2h7KeaJ9uUy3g%2FfuB7qfZXOJj5ZtVG6jGOeXeLzSOwt7rrFYw%2F%2FP4ybzltl%2B5PC4%2BAoZ25bxXw5XeZE7%2FCgGLZSsu4HmjMmN1OAT8QI%3D

<:monkaMega:809252622900789269>

That's a scarily uncanny mouth spline, right?

Nobody inspired to make some jxl art for the competition?

I am not participating, the above are not competition entries

I have no idea how jxl works, but that just looks cursed af <:monkachrist:853502717582508062>

I'd submit an entry but I feel like I don't understand the tools enough to make anything good

If no one else submits anything, does that mean I'd win by default at least?

Is the bot down?

I tried using the website to publish a piece, but it doesn't seem to work right now.

What happens if you publish?

Did you enter "discord" in the spam prevention box?

I did, it just didn't do anything after hitting the submit button.

**\_wb\_** _“Test Art”_ 2021 image/jxl 40 bytes https://jxl-art.surma.technology/?zcode=C89MKclQMDQwMuHySM1MzyiBsJ0yS1JSC0AyhlxBziEKhiZc%2FkWZqXkliSWZ%2BXkKxlxcmWkKyQp2CgZcCgpAZkBRaplrURFUQEFBVyEcbFpqioKuIbqIIURPOFC1kYGJBaYGiBlAJX66fq5wM1EVmWCKmXIBAA%3D%3D

Huh, maybe I wasn't doing something right?

Maybe. Bot isn't down at least.

You can also just share the link and/or upload a jxl+png

Should "Discord" have a lowercase or uppercase "D"?

I do lowercase

Dunno if it is case-sensitive

I ended up just copy-pasting the text + a png into the comp thread

I'll try lowercase

Squeeze is notoriously tricky to make art with

It's very fun though, you never know what it's going to do haha

Splines are very simple in comparison, though they still give unexpected results due to interactions between sigma, color addition, and clamping behavior

I should try to figure out splines, they seem really interesting

Probably some of the images I made are probably more numerical artifacts of the decoder than actual well defined images, some pixels get such wildly out of gamut non-physical colors that I dunno if the math still works or if it becomes a matter of float arithmetic weirdness

Splines are crazy slow atm, there are some perf bugs in the decoder (since besides art, the jxl encoder doesn't produce splines yet so performance of spline decoding has not really been a priority)

sucks that montec's base64 challenge disallows jxl sadge

Yep, but this is not the last challenge, there will be others in the future and we also need to wait for the enabling JXL in browsers (and it's sad that it takes so long for FF to review patches for JXL)

the fact that our encoder doesn’t produce splines also means that they were not tested often (until we added them to `jxl_from_tree`), so speaking for myself, it took me a long time to even become aware of the performance regression

Yes, that's the problem with coding tools the encoder doesn't use (yet), and it's a reason why jxl art is actually useful 😄

> and it's sad that it takes so long for FF to review patches for JXL They're probably busy with AVIF. *Finally.*

**Anonymous** _“Unnamed pieceq”_ 2021 image/jxl 65 bytes https://jxl-art.surma.technology/?zcode=c8osSUktKMlQMDTgCnIOAVF%2B%2BSU%2BicUlXI45BRmJXFyZaQrJCnYKhpZcCgq6CsGpJQqGhmCmY1m6Y06Ogq4hWE0lSI0RUALIrgCxTUyBHCR15lBueGpmekZJagpII1y1EVgS2So0xYZGCDEFQ6hRIMfoGhoYGXEBAA%3D%3D

looks like somebody took a picture out of the window on a very sunny day xD

Or a display at night

The black is actually transparent

Did someone on the discord make that?

me

I like it

Minimalistic

``` #!/bin/bash for i in $(seq 0 1 31) do echo Spline echo 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 echo 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 echo 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 yes 0 | head -n $i echo 2 yes 0 | head -n $((31 - i)) echo "10 $((32 * i + 15))" echo "1012 $((32 * i + 15))" echo EndSpline done > splinedemotree echo "- Set 127" >> splinedemotree ../build/tools/jxl_from_tree splinedemotree splinedemotree.jxl ```

from top to bottom, these 32 splines have all sigma (thickness) coefficients set to zero except for one

so it starts with the DC of the 1D DCT-32

that's trippy...

then goes up to higher and higher frequency

ah, that would be negative thickness, right?

(the black parts)

yep

the color of the spline is (3.0, 2.0, 1.0) so very very red, very green, and 'only' maximum blue

and the negative version of that

if you bump up the coefficient to 10, you get this

nice

I assume it decodes in like half a year or so?

it's not that bad

i dunno what exactly the current complexity is, but it seems to be related to the size of the bounding box of the spline or something

yeah

it's something like that * number of rows in the image

which is so bad I can't even begin to describe it xD

these horizontal-line-only splines are slow but considering there's 32 of them, it's kind of ok compared to how slow a single spline can be that covers the whole image

it's a nice art tool, especially I can imagine cool animations could be written by making a script that does one spline per frame with parametrized changes to everything

but if we want to show _that_ in a browser, we'll need faster spline decoding, lol

I can imagine something about splines is inherently not so cheap to render, but I can also imagine it can be sped up hugely

100x is not out of the question

1000x likely isn't, either

**\_wb\_** _“Romantically Glowing Necklace”_ 2021 image/jxl 103 bytes https://jxl-art.surma.technology/?zcode=rZFBCsIwEEX3OcVcIDCTWGM3LpSAqyIq9AAm2kAppRTPb5LGWu2yTTaflz%2BPwJTO9BUQig07Wfes%2BiEfXG9sG16IXY43oC27trVrLAN%2FuARccqNkt4JD4AoSWqLglCVNRgQSh6x8ppTzwBWNXOG3n6csJ5wmfTnxfPy6MWkV7gF32EOo%2Bnju7Et3nQdDn0MZF2qN%2F%2BQ%2FSTNlGEecD8hIfKPghR6Vvx0xZ4K9AQ%3D%3D

``` #!/bin/bash n=12 for i in $(seq 0 1 $((n - 1))) do echo Spline f=$(echo "$i / $n"|bc -l) g=$(echo "s(3.14159 * $i / $n)"|bc -l) h=$(echo "$g * 100" | bc -l | cut -b 1-2) echo 3 $g 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 echo $g 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 echo 1 $g 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 echo "$g $h" >/dev/stderr echo "$(echo "1.2 + $g * 3"|bc -l) 0 -$g 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0" echo "10 $((5 + h/8))" echo "$((60 + h/7)) 15" echo "70 $((250 - h/4))" echo "10 $((225 - h/5))" echo "100 170" echo "180 $((100 - h/3))" echo "140 $((135 - h/6))" echo "100 $((100 - h/3))" echo "180 170" echo "220 20" echo "190 30" echo "230 170" echo "240 $((140 + h/2))" echo EndSpline if [[ $i -lt $((n-1)) ]] then echo NotLast fi echo Width 256 echo Height 256 echo Duration 100 echo Animation echo "if c > 0" echo "- Set $((80-h/2))" echo "if y > 0" echo "- N 1 - Set 0" done > demotree ```

http://jpegxl.info/animation-test.html

TIL that Google Chrome supports Base64 encoded JPEG-XL favicons

Also, that animation is really neat! I hadn't even noticed that the art tool supported animations.

Why not https? ;)

https://jpegxl.info/animation-test.html

**ziemek.z** _“Checkerboard chroma subsampling test, part 1: Chrome”_ 2021 image/jxl 29 bytes https://jxl-art.surma.technology/?zcode=c8osSUktKMlQMOTiykxTSFawUzDgUlDQVQhOLQGzgIIVUEEwpxLOAanyC4dzgHLhSHLIZiDzDXEY5IrEAesDAA%3D%3D

**ziemek.z** _“Checkerboard chroma subsampling test, part 2: Firefox”_ 2021 image/jxl 29 bytes https://jxl-art.surma.technology/?zcode=c8osSUktKMlQMOTiykxTSFawUzDgUlDQVQhOLQGzgIIVUEEwpxLOAanyC4dzgHLhSHLIZiDzDXEY5IrEAesDAA%3D%3D

PSA: use Firefox over Chrome for <:JXL:805850130203934781>-art whenever you can. Apparently Firefox on default quality settings in its built-in JPEG encoder (`HTMLCanvasElement.toBlob()`) doesn't set chroma subsampling, but Chrome does, thus damaging the colors sometimes.

According to MDN (https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/HTMLCanvasElement/toBlob): > If this argument is anything else, the default values 0.92 and 0.80 are used for `image/jpeg` and `image/webp` respectively. <@!228116142185512960> didn't set any particular JPEG quality: https://github.com/surma/jxl-art/blob/a68d85446d/src/publish.js#L62 https://github.com/surma/jxl-art/blob/a68d85446d/src/utils.js#L38 so we're safe to assume that default quality (0.92) was used. That quality means that Firefox doesn't use chroma subsampling and Chrome does, because due to observations (https://github.com/whatwg/html/issues/5395#issuecomment-604710551): > Firefox turns off subsampling at 90% quality and above > Chrome & Safari turn off subsampling ONLY at 100% quality

In order not to let chroma subsampling damage colors and at the same time still use built-in browser JPEG engine (in order to remain free of any other dependencies) we could probably change the quality based on the browser agent in order to keep chroma subsampling from engaging. Unfortunately in Chrome it disables only at 1.00 quality, which means **big** file sizes (Firefox – yellow, Chrome – blue; see how it **balloons** at 1.00). Do we *really* want that? https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/1538624/77709184-a2807700-6fa0-11ea-92fc-dc3c1bcf8357.png

Meh, need the jxl anyway for the real thing.

I'm talking about Discord previews.

I would just download and share the png if 420 is too destructive

Yes, I understand. I think preview accuracy isn't such a concern when the jxl is available.

Yeah, I am very aware the preview image are low quality. That was kinda on-purpose to be mindful of the user’s data volume (2k by 2k PNGs are way too large).

Is there any way to generate both JPEG and PNG and check which one is smaller?

No way PNG is smaller 😄

Or at least: not worth the memory pressure, battery drain and additional code complexity for the very rare cases in which it might be

Its a preview image.

It depends on the image which is smaller, something with lots of repetitive high frequency stuff like a sierpinski will be smaller as png than as jpeg

They will all be smallest as jxl though 😄

I think it would be better to have a switch between Jpeg and PNG for the user to choose

No way it won't be abused and always set to PNG for highest quality possible

Exactly. I loaded the checkerboard image that I used above into Squoosh. In Chrome "Browser JPEG" was 187 kB and "Browser PNG" was 26.4 kB. In Firefox "Browser JPEG" was 1.23 MB and "Browser PNG" was 9.08 kB.

I don't see a problem with PNG, the main decision to add Jpeg by default was that the preview is created on the user side who may have a limited bandwidth plan or slow internet And Discord creates its own previews and it won't hurt discord users

For *some* images PNG will be both smaller and higher quality. Both "browser JPEG" and "browser PNG" are easy to generate, so it should be easy to generate both and pick smaller one.

Total size of 24 encoded JXL arts sourced from jpegxl.info ``` Bytes Encoder 5327 JXL source 7086251 JPG Chrome 12054450 JPG Firefox 23072095 PNG Chrome 33279805 PNG Firefox``` Size of *Maze* (the sole exceptional case) ``` Bytes Encoder 42 JXL source 336235 PNG Firefox 340220 PNG Chrome 367389 JPG Chrome 698807 JPG Firefox```

Possibly, the selection is biased and not really representative of what's posted to Discord.

There are quite a lot of 'natural' looking jxl arts on that site, where jpg probably works well

Still, about 3x difference between jpg and png is not as much as what you typically get between lossy and lossless

(usually it's more like 10x)

Okay, well I didn't want to have to download the alien with a mouth-crotch and eye-nipples just for this test, but maybe later.

jpeg xl architecture

🤯

Did you make an svg to splines thing?

i attempted to

Well there's obviously room for improvement, but this looks promising

the whole bezier curves is annoying

It's interesting what you get for rounded rectangles and ellipses, I didn't know they were drawn that way

Text isn't quite readable yet but there is something there

im thinking series of connected bezier curves can probably be combined into a single natural spline, of which points for the catmull-rom spline can be made

that's a lot of effort tho

it's what the text is mostly made of

and i had to chop out 50% of them because otherwise jxl_from_tree segfaults

Would be cool if we could replace the svg diagram with a spline jxl one

<@604964375924834314> take a look at this!

that's bad and it should not happen xD

can you make a WIP PR so we can try to repro?

(or just give us the input to jxl_from_tree that segfaults)

i wouldnt think it matters since it's just stupidly big

eh, it's a stack size problem

it works with `ulimit -s unlimited`

we should probably not make the parser use so much stack...

wow that works

this many splines takes a lot of time to decode

the letters look like a leonardo da vinci style thing

any idea where the spurious lines are coming from?

a quick guess is that there's some parameter to take only part of the bezier curve in svg

it doesn't translate well to the cubic spline as you can even see from all the ellipses

Something else has to be done entirely, like just generating some arbitrary new spline that fits the curve

I may explore this more since I find it quite interesting... and I have the time now

you could do some function optimization of parameters 😛

if you're writing python - scipy.optimize is pretty magic

I guess there are literature about BEZIER -> spline (the ones of JXL) correct onvertion 🙂

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s42979-021-00770-x

what is the added value to have spline in the format JXL ??? I don't see the point and also the use of it could be quite complex to have same behavior from all encoders/decoders that will pop up in the market, no ?

Behavior should be fully specced

The point is that dct doesn't work well for thin lines. But making an encoder that detects and uses splines effective has not been done yet. I see it mostly as a future proofing thing.

I used this article to convert the curves and that was the result

and I made sure to test my correctness on its own tests at the bottom of the article

That looks really nice!

oh i can use the publish button

**Anonymous** _“Unnamed piece”_ 2021 image/jxl 432 bytes https://jxl-art.surma.technology/?zcode=7Zi7bt5GEIV7PgX7QMbObS%2BtgQDpXeQFJMQCAsOF3h85cyFppwrhIg0hQN%2B%2Fh8sVdOaf2dn98%2F314%2BverW1%2FvL3%2F9fUjPn5%2B%2F3h9%2Bw59bl%2B%2B%2F%2F3%2B7W17aZ90NJuTxXgp0Ri2t1%2F52V7mp%2Fb%2FL4H%2FS35xCaEWrgnN3Yi237%2B9lmuPef%2FBvAHT9DQv2EbqzXUDXZdd1wqzdeF5G6CBUmxFCvJaP%2BnUCesvkIs%2Bnpc%2BMa%2FPJ3h3lqABk%2FtlXrKDCEK3opROxXrPMH9McIAIpvUfxh20U2fbRWTjDmhCDtHWju%2FKE7c7S9iAZ%2FOwDhkg1DckBpJt6wLI1hXgrcNkaoE2Ez2hCUvIIYrtjPcCskm%2FRrwR887yFMh7OcYNprXTPGIt9uKo5ysptDMjJwXzGTkmAiK3BO%2Bx%2FWusl2600zyI58bF1Jmwvj0F8tYSjF2M7TKPPYgogDAcJHAmPWiuezB8nieOvyf%2BPid11bjVeF56030kJp42S6SIbCfk8BO4O4Ez2wkV7zCPUSuDKJaENoVRJpNWrHkd8xpMHw0cIOajSCZ7UU9d8EVo8RstDjKbzs%2BhjxWzntDd6SjRRBA2pMM8mRkKmRShkSkRKpkZOpmjuJKL8vmqeYuLmu%2BXrto9vVQj2Xw0LxHdquflE7gbSyih%2BGk%2FzQui%2BIWOYqjUoziqF1MUS41iSqAVZ%2BpeTH2eYOc0rOM7IbrKU8fRwHc0XTN2uBz3Uzf%2FO%2Fxk3b2WMkyT0zzznQ9tBs5Y0YaYBw1tiTFFm2IsxWxnrNoZ8yAGR3H9pHfKXrL7lyKYneah28w%2B9AneneDNHj38YV6yF2eSal6YPOKQADfjzGBzxRHCFsWJwlYrcjH1Xme2jqBf1FPXIXHee4J3p2zCCj8sH%2Bbp4DhEK1oMP2TDuDh0J1Em%2B4pDedJK78Vj%2FiiuS0eQ%2FaYk6eP5wxj7ouVNyxO8O82K%2BfVVP80TrWstrWstresuGXn9JXUdhlNcXI9hb4vrMqc3L8FW5EvXuqN0qq%2BzrrFdd5hX8F72L28f%2B2%2B%2B8%2F4D

3 days left to submit entries in the compo thread!

I will submit something soon :)

"Bozo (spray paint)" 226 Bytes https://jxl-art.surma.technology/?zcode=7Zc9b4MwEIZ3_4rbkaUz9pmwVGqkqpm6ZKCdC02QoigDqtR_3_MHVZJ2aIT5GIKHM3foBR69Z0PV1t0eFCKKTdPu9l2Yr9uubk6uosTr21qI7enQHhsBfOCw8YcG33JGFTX0hbwK8d1phcLHgpNPxzpCSw9P5rQQlTTwTEGgFQpTIGi2353dDcbT6NmRpmt243btbYMSaihKAU67TsXQsYpQFPHc1ZZCUdKYIsM59swse9kyQ4MhnvMVsxEtJtZQJoUvHVPmKFYcNbMsOeY07qL4e9gZNNL1teOXx6iiD2cwIE2skcaAfRO7yOYTbEIo6Q7w3wD71dBGgNZOAtDQEkR0mi9CS_wo4avGXKJrP-AdHkAJCdum490Nf3IYczmG3JfP8aTiSen3dgmPn7sqewGp-cyVnjf-KnC1yv8DNTVk-XVG5pdK5yUdE5CFHe8b

"Bozo (X-ray)" 264 bytes https://jxl-art.surma.technology/?zcode=7ZbPasMwDMbvfgq9QIb8R05y2aEQ2KkMdsh2XrI1MEoJYc8_2QkjWemKG2300Pgg41gf1o9PieuuGXagEVE9tN37bhjnm25o2kN4o9Xzy0bx83T46PatAn5wMTgBEsefqVymodeKRBXiCqhAFWOOqto3E7Mlu8zQ6hNLqVwLO5cTWI3K5QgWb-ySfGcxsiNLv7G7K0DgyHg1Ih7BuHX0YqeasWMNnXZdeCtgFxGRtdisWL86JkZmjDNyp38U85F5gapFRBLa1Umgy9lsjtu04GgZXXnWfJcWfqZ4EZFEgiRB0E4EzRTD1YEw2YQZCVQvIvL_JmRs4Nl0IZb8BWQjQkk3hAkIvR4R-gmh98cIuzd4hXvQnMDTOkzD7TqkZ1DH-3bbQGbjCu_YZtuKN407lnvM8ZoJ-o99-1n1_XfWPEf_XAkLSn0B

"Bozo (Metal and Vinyl)" 275 bytes https://jxl-art.surma.technology/?zcode=7ZZNS8NAEIbv-yvmHlZmP2aTXgoWxJ689BA9m9gGpPQQBP-9k80iiVJLmlErmD3MdqZ9m3l4Z5OyqdodGERU67rZ7tp-v2raqj50FaPuH1aKr83hudnXCvjC0eIfwMT1bSrnaZi5IlGFuAMqUMWYo7rZV4nZmJ22NPuOpVQuhZ3PCZxB5XMEh__sJvnOYWRHjr5id1WAwC3jxYgEAuvn0YuTavuJtXTcdV1VwC4iInOxObF59UyMbB8H5I4_KIZLB4GuRUQmjKuXQJez2TyPacHRMbrFSfOd2_iJ5kVEJhIkCYIuEbQpdq8OhJNNqEmgexGRnzchY-MDlJ-3HBd8ArIRYUG_g_BvEgymJxgSwRA-E1SqeYJHWIJRGjZ1y7zwPYcpxy6OudeY403JGz4U-F80XL9sy-wOtONPXel2Hb8FXa2M7-t1BZn9mNF2rDQsuZSALA6NegM

Don't forget to add submissions to the compo thread, it only counts as a submission if it's (also) there

Can you explain again how to "add submissions to the compa thread" ? (is it in discord?)

https://discord.com/channels/794206087879852103/878599623843913728/878599625169305630

try using this link

There's a button in the top right to go to threads of a channel

Hello, for the spline, the DCT is this one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discrete_cosine_transform#DCT-II ? (I mean the exact basic formula in wikipedia?)

well, it's a continuous-DCT (which kinda makes little sense :P)

I think of it more as a superposition of 32 (co)sinusoidal functions with some frequencies

yes sure ! but how to find the coefficients 🙂

https://github.com/libjxl/libjxl/blob/main/lib/jxl/splines.cc#L32

the formula is, in position t along the spline (I think - <@!604964375924834314>) sum of `coeff_i cos(pi * i/32 * (t+1/2))`

Where t goes from 0 to 1?

Here's one spline for every coeff

I don't actually know xD

I still ivestigat this spline / DCT

https://jxl-art.surma.technology/?zcode=4wouyMnMS-VSAAJDAwMFiuAgNAVIUGYMlynIJWAS6CYDLte8FGiQcXHpKgSnligYGplzAQA why line is not white, by default it is RGB no ???

Good question

100 is 100 times brighter than white

I dunno why the result is cyan, but I guess it has something to do with different scaling factors getting used for the different channels? <@604964375924834314> do you know what's going on here?

yes, likely: https://jxl-art.surma.technology/?zcode=Cy7IycxLDSxNzCvJrEosyczPc0zJKi0uyU3NK1EwMuDiCgYr4FIAAkMDAwWK4CA0BUhQZgyXKcglYBLoJgMu17wUaJBxcekqBKeWKBgamXMBAA

(wait, which way does this adjust it again? it’s smaller now)

ideally, I guess we would use a color correlation map of 0 when doing RGB, but from what I understand, we don’t signal the cmap in modular images, and so the decoder uses the default cmap which is _not_ 0

and tuned for XYB instead

when I tried making `jxl_from_tree` use a 0 cmap if ¬XYB, it did not go well

Yes, iirc the cmap is not signalled in modular mode

<@794205442175402004> BTW, you can just link to threads too: <#878599623843913728>

Tomorrow is the final day to submit entries to the August 2021 compo!

here's a super basic spline editor <https://grass.moe/catmull-rom/> source is in the page itself

I made a PR to speed up splines somewhat

I mean, about 10x on some of the examples here

I don't know if it could be improved - I wrote a big integral on my whiteboard that should be what splines are computing, but solving it doesn't seem exactly obvious xD

what's the speed difference on this?

... I'm still decoding it with main...

so the new one decodes 0.65 MP/s

when the old one is done I'll let you know xD

nice

ohhhhh reeeally cool 😄

can you do something for the text that is just an outline?

hmm it's really up to the svg since there's no way to distinguish it from a shape

like in the svg, the fill of text is the same as the rectangles

i did think of a way to optimize the sampling of curves but i spent all day playing video games

and sampling turned out to be much more reliable in a 2d discrete space

ok, I realized I can significantly speed up things still on that image

I'll try that out later or tomorrow 😄

oh, it's done! it's about 30x faster with the new code

also, is it intended behaviour that it fails to decode if there are 2 points that occupy the same pixel rounded?

like making the jxl from the tree succeeds but decoding fails

yes

nice! it seems it may not be quite the same type of spline as in jxl though

it can produce cusps

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2f/Catmull-Rom_examples_with_parameters..png JXL uses the centripetal kind

but the editor seems to use uniform

ohh

thanks, didnt know

seems i just have to change 1 parameter

this right?

seems like it, I think 😄 thanks

is it in the spec that the ends of the spline curve in the opposite direction of its previous neighbour?

because this makes it impossible to make 2 ends look continuous

example:

yes, there is mirroring involved

an additional control point right after the first one and right before the last one might work around that

**\_wb\_** _“Solidarity Flag”_ 2021 image/jxl 267 bytes https://jxl-art.surma.technology/?zcode=zVS7TsQwEOz3K%2FwDh7y2N3YaChASFUgc0tWIBM4SCieUAv6e9fseQHMpSIqZfXh2Yvtu44d5K1BKCbejf93OomMK692bn0YQ%2FFghz3kX05ALaOiLc50Ab4%2FQvEVklDCuIELXk9BWMnYRSVJGk%2FLkYn9CrDoRUWXUQMR6nclI0FkUOqyzKiJpymhS3rjYn5CqTkAjm48aZ98lrr5K3B%2F2F58305Avxf7l6Jc4lf8jssD9cLxf%2FHMCh4YRwfH5oeqh57wKeY6VxdgX9tWqPsY210Mc%2Bq3r0vqiF7GtC6gwo%2BybjpZVP%2BRrX5lrD%2Bt753r%2F4cdpfpr9%2ByQUXPl5GHf852AAHq4fBYJ%2FEc%2Fikj8yk5j5ZBL8ZGoS%2FSp9KYewEncbzqzEepyPKyGlWi3hCqEIYdNUjZJsrYXhqYr8xeTR2K7I6jbB%2FDSsKp841hL%2BnlWriiql5s%2FSkaDJ6MrXqUwswDc%3D

<:Poggers:805392625934663710>

I wonder if there's some way to turn text (or I suppose filled shapes with a relatively small filled area) into a curve that follows the middle of the outline and has a variable thickness.

**\_wb\_** _“Peace Flag”_ 2021 image/jxl 175 bytes https://jxl-art.surma.technology/?zcode=7ZXNSgMxFIX3eYr7AlNufmfcCFoEd6IVXBcnthEbi6YLfXpvnGSSli6U2Qg2WczHnZNDOLkkD64PazhDZNfWrdYBDCFbbF%2Bct7e7pQ%2Fucxncq7%2Fon3fvYWN9ADEKGNDgSAMmzT%2Fpo4DTnLgXjaB0Ya55xUNd0m5FpZHEV75PCZ%2BC%2FpFHDDEHLbsSrjKlrgRG3aBRA5%2BC%2FqWHid2aQtRVF6uuhKurro96tRf0%2F0gaZwIanOmJRm3Vv%2BaAc9zG8JFbrY%2FW9%2FXl2NrE1fHcvDm65b8vfeDs0oXebumJkIzdze%2Bp4p7gEc5pfwk4i%2FQRCTGjKKgJG1jYAI1KkL%2FVj6yWZaE65jEu6Q4KnF6l0Z59AQ%3D%3D

https://jxl-art.surma.technology/?zcode=rZDBCsIwDIbveYrcRyHpGNSLoDL01IMT-gBu6kDGDkPc25tubWF4c7aUfkn__m0CUPXPtmsAZbBGWjNnEyG90kP94yOeFP_uokM92vg1sdkYLFhPLLuPkybmvcbry64OrYV9O9RNPzyQCc6HCzJAe8MrboUERgEChVZChVUzoCqYo4Q8vIPEfUnGKLEChigcF5SSekZ3PAWT3etuM-swT1yiypcX3cJN2ji_nkkFHw

pace flag?

I mean, it works in Italian...

now it decodes at 15MP/s

😄

so it got about 750x faster

(still double-checking it looks OK, and there's a failing test, and it needs code review...)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_flag

Those flags were quite common/popular even in Belgium around the time the Iraq war was starting, I still see them from time to time

ah interesting, TIL

I took that concept, but with the LGBT+ rainbow as a background

Wow that's the biggest speedup I've seen in a long, long time. Congrats!

That turns splines from unusably slow into something that might be actually an attractive alternative for svg in some cases

Deadline for the August 2021 jxl art compo (see <#878599623843913728> ) is TODAY!

let's say when August 30 ends in all major time zones, so in about 24 hours

**\_wb\_** _“Ceci n'est pas un arbre”_ 2021 image/jxl 180 bytes https://jxl-art.surma.technology/?zcode=rZPLTsNADEX3%2FgrvUdDYnlc2SAUVWJWn1HVFQhtE06qdIuDrcUJSyjpJFPkm9px47DE8bd%2Brunw4LOpUfS9Staknxdthn9ZlnZAN%2FPoB9RJjDA66WwyPg6FxMHEQg22%2FJQzOnOgI07roandaw2yktIdzgjGjZiRIQxjnDmJOKMEChcaKvjNKFAhBUHyEIBYp5BA4oss9eBuRicGToHM56IPMAs4EdGTBetIGObDqt8GDRIfsHYg1aG0EIUbOBTgEtMzAul4aq%2F%2BxRMBsUCzBaSvhskpFuU0rPX9wt6t0StqhQQ9wvVusy%2FvNXreTkZ4GgMerZySoXvEFL7RMnWi%2FfKpoWnCUBBnOMWM1T2Vqhq1TGf%2BFmTaIes8%2FQCvnKvm4tA0vq%2BUqlQW6xv%2FVJzK%2Fue14k4%2Fl7Gw2RznqKWbSw0yXVo%2BMCocf

I like that impossible eclipse

Tbf if you draw large things it is still a bit slow... But less so

Large as in big sigma or as in long arclength?

I think big sigma is mostly useful for art, not really for 'serious' use cases

Long arclength though could be useful, for diagrams and stuff

big sigma

yeah, long arclength scales reasonably well afaict

big σ is trickier

the only way I have in mind of improving that is by computing an integral in a smarter way... but this is likely very hard

"Rubin golden vase 1" (81 bytes) https://jxl-art.surma.technology/?zcode=rZJJTgMxEEXXrlP4Am3V5GmDBBKIFQJlwTqiG2JEOhFxNpye6g7iAuCSbJXf9y9Pz23sOy-McD-1t133WhBgc_xo8_R03s69fW17O8zX4_v51PfT3P0vB28tIvo_xerC_-Iy1D_bkISkjoNQLS6HqEhuwJAyZqc2SFGHQS2jUEuqC2RRrjUWEkMx5YJCGheF2CRp0uLQUBLJiFwN2Sot5ok5YXHkrLQJuLDlymXhZEXI6ovRIDVWUo1Mq5OkmCNj5Likl7g4ZBQ0VNdd2yGS2APlhdhuWdBcFjFQQl8ugwkAbufx51HhpvVxOtqvIIS7z-1-ejyc7G4G0wK0V__irzzB4B_WfjN1zxHhGw

https://jxl-art.surma.technology/?zcode=rZFLTgMxDIbXySlygYn8ymvJAqlb1AXrSjOig2CKRLrp6fkzRVyg2FIi53N-O_HrOvdzUCF_WNa3cw9G5L0_fn2s2_JyPW19vZ36etme5vfrd_9cth4m-8vwAZaIwkO-q8i_qEyPN8MaszmJyq26EpMRu4liLlScYdNqjqIh4thqbgOKmrSWKitQyqWSsqWRoThky1YdAWXVQiQNCLesQpNKpurYoTQSpApikzo4owijvoJGbamxWRLelTSnkoSSpBHe_a5QSAmo7V3jEVnxJ2UQdCtKUBnJnvP-WqyG8fvnbf6dKWwKx6UH-gE

64-byte edition

1h45m left to make a submission in <#878599623843913728> !

I've been busy, but at least submitted something very last minute.

I like the word "titillating"

It's from the latin word for tickling

But it makes everyone think of titties

Going to close the contest in about 23 minutes

Then there's 24 more hours for everyone to vote on as many entries as they want using the <:BlobYay:806132268186861619> emoji

That's basically my whole game plan, man. 🤞

32-byte September 2021 compo

128-byte September 2021 compo

1024-byte September 2021 compo

The <#878599623843913728> ended, time to vote!

Winner will be announced tomorrow

Meanwhile, I already started threads for the September compos, which will be in 3 categories, with different size limits

I might participate this time - time to roll up my sleeves! https://github.com/libjxl/libjxl/pull/521

**\_wb\_** _“Approximation of a perfect sunset”_ 2021 image/jxl 111 bytes https://jxl-art.surma.technology/?zcode=pZDLTsMwEEX38xWzR0YzfgR3g1SqAqvwKFLWETGtK5pWrYuAr8cxSdogdpEX8c3MPXM9z7MXZLjxoXK7sEImWOzefe2ejmUd%2FHcZ%2FLaeVuvjIWxcHbArgyXCUQf0aMJYvyRUyPqStWRlMqmuFE0MaWvHUFlbzHR8n6LmizCvq3Zp8LD3cYtpqWjhdl9u3OP2EG1CmgzAv%2BErXkcGILZ3jtckPqNQREkiCly4gKaTbf1ULVDwoFVSov6D6n%2FwuVsO3Ex%2FJgvT8FLir2g2Bs64v%2BmLu%2Fs%2BksDpxzK%2FyAtUAz1HoaDvFXEMCMyb7KcOTlOKlhXDOb9cBVc11i6OnRiAHw%3D%3D

one day we could put all JXL art in a "genomitic tree" to see which NDA came from which piece in order to create other pieces 🙂

I'm going to count the votes in <#878599623843913728> soon (first need to bring the kids to their first day of school)

So last chance to vote!

Congratulations to the winner of the <#878599623843913728> : <@456226577798135808> !

Updated the page on jxl art

https://jpegxl.info/art/

not sure if it matters, but here's a link that can be used as the source for the elephant, though this one is changed a bit. (this one is specifically 740 bytes). the byte count on jxl-art is slightly different; I'm guessing it needs an update?

i originally wanted to change the submission but it makes no practical difference

btw the faster spline patch also fixes an interesting rendering issue, with the result that very thin splines are likely slightly thicker

updated

thanks!

Now it's time for the <#882173948534603806> <#882174149374672896> <#882174448478863370>

Please participate early and inspire one another!

I submitted an entry in the 128-byte category. It's an animation 😜

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28368626

Don't be shy and submit stuff to the jxl art compos!

https://c.tenor.com/ich6HvYSoqsAAAAM/dont-be-shy-george-segal.gif

You know, it's hard to create new stuff... 😉

**w** _“jxl”_ 2021 image/jxl 548 bytes https://jxl-art.surma.technology/?zcode=7Vg9bxsxDN31K7gXJUSK%2BhpbtECHokuGzgESNAZaJ2jd%2F9%2FHs2PLl8uUoYsQICAfRcl4Iikev%2B%2FuDg%2FUuoYv97sfDwdqqYaPu8Pd%2FRNwDR%2F2u1%2B3h93jPnz6%2B3sRKMcYwrfHw9fbP4dw8%2FRzt78PieJb%2Fv67v7zVPyeOVDRzgVy4GhWrrK5VNmi5c1pMTanUzFmhCReYeudoQSxzzVRF2GBL1W1VhWsLotirUU2RFbtIYZhSYQmf93enK5g3cfQfyMGldAR04T55WvsP3HTlXCEbV9DXWDM17dw7ojBxg4KwhlITJ6EWEZkI0G4sIBrOSYICzNBq45aDKkCqGUqF0lmEquFeoCWAfYnr3oKaAUQGNM8H9YwRZIexK4UzkkgWL%2FwC6V55OHYc1rgnSh2%2FB4cB7JSQL3He8tp%2FJOcoO68gPgrqlVp7gccFX68%2Foi7J2X7B4nmva%2Bx47lEqZ8kxWVkXLHYE20XexCWy5EXx8BwtQwW%2BhMF7urk%2F0DuaL9ba3zqeGzKN4Ksge400JhSAmUIr%2F5GcHL0eTqK2X5SBHEvoWyhZusrGSdQx9QZykmQ8lTOits8fyFFx0p5lr%2FUazV%2BpK1y9aXZDvfZIaFPiqdpNmtfnD%2BRoU2%2B70PfNb4uX3dRATmr4wphEvXL%2BQI7ljDbSep2pt%2FEUDOTk0rjMiHqluRjIKVVZJ1GvtKsDOWOPv%2FlNNDlb%2FGtqqOveLyhk9BxKPt7ICZqxGokXfl00EZIa2VrwGVOGzTorbGjnJJGk6MO8mpVrJx9GxRJqQQ8Cv4gPY%2FjVzK7E2fJtXMVATvMZKMU513npf6HGB3DVyIMPUYcAK%2BQTZEF4AkNQc4Qc%2FT2Gj%2BVQWubSCEtFUS1QGwqB9FJDKZGbUU%2BLktE9I56lckuh%2BPQOmqmfU8x8UCelcMJKyz7U1gibF%2BfmkW%2FSfGZYOvbH%2B9bnCHajVA%2FkHOWM%2F6Cw%2B3gst85xhXuf7vI13rA%2BD%2FLzmmtcz3uu1%2BfTbzit8dHgCl%2F2jHGF1%2BYfWM9yOq%2B5xoXb0cHjcLQMRXfrcfoH

soon we will see and animation of an elephant 🙂

oh yeah zou=象

unfortunately nobody will get the reference

Is the last frame a rotation of the first frame via patches?

no it's just another set of splines

Patches cannot rotate

Orientation is per image, not per frame

Unfortunately

For art, rotating patches would have been nice

Rotating patches would complicate the format even more

Normal patches are already quite complex and hard to find

Finding rotated patches would be around 8x more expensive (since there are 8 possible Exif orientations to check for every patch)

yeah - though you could just make an encoder that doesn't try to find rotated patches, or only some rotations (say only horizontal flip, since e.g. quite a few letters are horizontally symmetric so could be represented in half the pixels)

but yes, it would complicate stuff for probably not a huge density win

(but for art it would be neat to produce symmetrical images easily)

How about creating JXLX? An eXtended version specifically for art with more powerful stuff. Since the art would only be niche, libjxlx wouldn't need big adoption, an ISO spec, binary size considerations, fuzzing and all that stuff.

the jxl art is challenging. If we don't have the strict rules of jxl, then I find it less appealing

yeah it's more appealing if it is an actual image codec

if we would do a specific thing for art, I would add lots of fancy stuff that can be used as basically arbitrary shaders etc

and you could then probably make something where even 16-byte files could be very interesting

but it wouldn't be the same

the stuff that is in jxl was put there because it is useful for an image codec

that it can be used for art is just a fun 'accident'

Exactly <:This:805404376658739230>, creativity is an art of going around the limitations. If there are no limitations, is it art anymore? Even if it is, it's probably not as much fun.

> Engineers like to solve problems. If there are no problems handily available, they will create their own problems. ― Scott Adams (the Dilbert cartoonist)

The 1024 byte contest is a bit intimidating, imo

As in: that's a lot of bytes to play with

can we mix "encoded image bitstream" (I mean like an "old" jpeg with DCT2D etc?

How do you mean?

Yes, it doesn't have to be a jxl

As long as it decodes with conventional decoders, no custom formats

But png, jpeg, webp, anything goes

...WebP 2?

Maybe add the rule that the format must be conventional **AND** frozen?

Does SVG count as an image format?

I guess

Not sure about compressed svg though - maybe svg.gz and svg.br are ok?

I am for using only jxl 🙂

I think jxl will likely make nicer art possible (within those size limits) than other codecs, but if someone wants to make an `avif_from_idunnowhat` tool and make interesting looking stuff with it, I don't want to stop them

**\_wb\_** _“Squeezy stuff 1”_ 2021 image/jxl 32 bytes https://jxl-art.surma.technology/?zcode=c8osSUktKMlQMOYKcg5RMOQKLixNTa1K5eLKTFOoCa9RsAPKKCjoKgSnligYAFlA4YCi1DLHpGLXoiKgrCFQDCQfnpqZnlGSmgJWBFYW7u4BlIdwQSocy9L9tP1cFXQN4ULhCkZcXGCZcG2%2FcJAMAA%3D%3D

**\_wb\_** _“Squeezy stuff 2”_ 2021 image/jxl 32 bytes https://jxl-art.surma.technology/?zcode=c8osSUktKMlQMOYKcg5RMOQKLixNTa1K5eLKTFOoCa9RsAPKKCjoKgSnligYAFlA4YCi1DLHpGLXoiKgrCFQDCQfnpqZnlGSmgJWBFYW7u4BlIdwQSocy9L9tP1coTqgIuHafuEKuoZcAA%3D%3D

"Black Hole" 16 Bytes, 256 x 256 pixels , data:image/jxl;base64,/wp/QCQIBgEAFABLEiRhAA==

**\_wb\_** _“Fly eye close-up”_ 2021 image/jxl 20 bytes https://jxl-art.surma.technology/?zcode=c8osSUktKMlQMDTgCs9MATKMTM24PFIz0zNKwMwg5xAFQ67gwtLU1KpULi5dhXCwXGqKgjEXAA%3D%3D

More submissions please!

**fab** _“wew”_ 2021 image/jxl 34 bytes https://jxl-art.surma.technology/?zcode=c8osSUktKMlQMOYKcg5RMOQKLixNTa1K5eLKTFOoCa9RsFMw5VJQ0FUITi1RMACygMIBRalljknFrkVFQFlDoBhIPjw1Mz2jJDVFwQgiAlQX7u4BVwBS4liW7qft56pgjiwSru0XrqBrygUA

**fab** _“Diascord”_ 2021 image/jxl 34 bytes https://jxl-art.surma.technology/?zcode=TYq7CoNAEEX7%2BYrbi6CIARtBRUy1hChML466nW5Wi%2BDHZ9wq5XnU1k%2By%2BRUPejcDUur3Q%2BQrRHbGxRdK5ATE6MVrBVS%2FnJzV%2BGmd05qouzuLXVYvU5jCxt1TexHwPqpzMZFpkf0bjgwjLugH

**fab** _“iwqias”_ 2021 image/jxl 36 bytes https://jxl-art.surma.technology/?zcode=c8osSUktKMlQMDTgCnIOAVHBhaWpqVWpXFyZaQo14TUKdgpGpmZcCgq6CsGpJQomQBZQIqAotcwxqdi1qAgkDxQDyYenZqZnlKSmKBhCRIDqwt09gApMwFyQEseydD9tP1cFM2SRcG2%2FcAVdQy4A

Copy them to the relevant compo thread (e.g. <#882173948534603806> ) if you want to submit it as a compo entry

I don’t remember, does `jxl_from_tree` support describing several groups?

yes

`if g > 21`

for some reason the modular group ids start with 21

oh, great, thank you

Ah i cant Copy

well you could put them in the 128-byte category

**\_wb\_** _“High Color (RGB565)”_ 2021 image/jxl 45 bytes https://jxl-art.surma.technology/?zcode=C3IOUTDgcsosSUktKMlQMOMKz0wB0kamZlweqZnpGSVgpr6WglOQu4KWPlcQUL2hGRdXZppCsoKdgiGIEVCUWgZkG3DpKvgBSZAIklA4RKgCzgXrqYRrsACSwaklQB7MUAOEAiDDD8gwM4QrAmkxQtFSAVMZjq4yHFklFwA%3D

Who remembers the time when these were all the colors you got?

👵

👵

That was the 90s

Early 90s it was more like 256 colors only

Or even just 16 or 4

Or monochrome

the version with RCT 0 can still be seen in use nowadays, as 3D look-up tables

**\_wb\_** _“Spotlights”_ 2021 image/jxl 33 bytes https://jxl-art.surma.technology/?zcode=C3IOUTDgcsosSUktKMlQMOYKLixNTa1K5eLiykxTSFawUzDkUlAAMmvCa4AccyAHzA0HcgzAHAUFXQW%2FcAVdQ2SeIbI6XVO4VHhqZnpGSWoKsnK4mAUXiBucWgI0GQA%3D

**\_wb\_** _“Color and Texture”_ 2021 image/jxl 34 bytes https://jxl-art.surma.technology/?zcode=C3IOUTDgcsosSUktKMlQMOYKLixNTa1K5eLiykxTSFawUzDkUlAAMmvCa4AccyAHzA0HcgzAHAUFXQW%2FcAVdUzgvXMEUWRmyTGpmekZJaoqCriGmmAUXiBucWgI0GAA%3D

looks like a broken video in the right lol