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DZgas Ж
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spider-mario
imagine if they only supported 4:2:0 JXL
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2023-06-05 07:42:10
|
🙂
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diskorduser
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lonjil
people actually browse /g/...?
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|
2023-06-05 07:42:26
|
I do. Once a week
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raspin7932
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diskorduser
Firefox is lacking fire nowadays
|
|
2023-06-05 07:42:59
|
Firefox is too insignificant nowadays, sadly.
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Demiurge
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CSMR
Fantastic. For Windows what is the first step to support? For the jxl org to produce a WIC, of for Microsoft to decide to support? Microsoft tried to introduce Jpeg XL but the attempt is long dead.
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2023-06-05 07:43:01
|
That would be nice if there was a useable codec for windows
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|
2023-06-05 07:43:07
|
But there isn't
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Traneptora
|
2023-06-05 07:43:41
|
Apple posted a job 5 days ago, apparently
|
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2023-06-05 07:43:42
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2023-06-05 07:43:45
|
I wonder if this is related
|
|
2023-06-05 07:43:49
|
needless to say, I applied
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_wb_
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spider-mario
imagine if they only supported 4:2:0 JXL
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2023-06-05 07:43:55
|
Hard to do because we don't even support 4:2:0 when XYB is used 🙂
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Demiurge
|
|
Firefox is too insignificant nowadays, sadly.
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2023-06-05 07:43:55
|
Firefox is not insignificant, it has a lot of momentum but it's being driven into the ground and pissed away by "management"
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spider-mario
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_wb_
Hard to do because we don't even support 4:2:0 when XYB is used 🙂
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2023-06-05 07:44:24
|
that was part of the joke 😁
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190n
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Traneptora
needless to say, I applied
|
|
2023-06-05 07:44:33
|
if you take the job they probably won't let you work on related open source stuff
|
|
2023-06-05 07:44:40
|
at least from what i've heard from my friend who interned at apple
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Traneptora
|
2023-06-05 07:44:47
|
yea but then I'd be employed
|
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2023-06-05 07:44:52
|
so that's still a win
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190n
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prick
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Demiurge
Firefox is not insignificant, it has a lot of momentum but it's being driven into the ground and pissed away by "management"
|
|
2023-06-05 07:46:34
|
fresh new bloatware by the latest firefox download it today
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Demiurge
|
2023-06-05 07:46:52
|
Now with more Pocket!
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Wolfbeast
|
2023-06-05 07:46:53
|
Mozilla is a slow-motion trainwreck.
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Traneptora
|
2023-06-05 07:47:08
|
crablang to save us all
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prick
|
2023-06-05 07:47:11
|
pocket as in pocket the money and piss off
|
|
2023-06-05 07:48:24
|
has anyone adopted jpegli yet
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Foxtrot
|
2023-06-05 07:48:44
|
I wonder if Servo will ever be full fledged browser
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raspin7932
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Demiurge
Firefox is not insignificant, it has a lot of momentum but it's being driven into the ground and pissed away by "management"
|
|
2023-06-05 07:48:54
|
I must disagree. Firefox in nonexistent on android on such a huge market and even on desktop is like 5%? Making only a browser is unprofitable and they don't seem to generate much from their other services.
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gnat
|
2023-06-05 07:49:41
|
apple saved the web today
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Wolfbeast
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Foxtrot
I wonder if Servo will ever be full fledged browser
|
|
2023-06-05 07:50:01
|
It won't. Servo is only the layout part in Rust. You can't write a full-fledged browser in it and have it be performant.
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_wb_
|
2023-06-05 07:50:01
|
Anyway let's keep the general conversation to <#794206087879852106> or <#806898911091753051> and let's save this channel for celebrating the unexpected great news today from Apple/Safari! 🍾🍻🎉
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Foxtrot
|
2023-06-05 07:50:15
|
tbh, shared browser engine like chromium isnt such bad idea... it just has to be developed more openly like linux kernel... not like chromium is doing now
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Wolfbeast
|
2023-06-05 07:50:32
|
_cheers for Apple adoption!_
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username
|
2023-06-05 07:51:30
|
<@794205442175402004> due to the likelyhood off increased traffic to "jpegxl.info" I am quickly making a pull request to mention other implementations does this look good? (checking before I actually submit the pull request) https://github.com/jxl-community/jxl-community.github.io/commit/c3b86334f28e415948e1d3434fe4c4f16aafa98a
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username
<@794205442175402004> due to the likelyhood off increased traffic to "jpegxl.info" I am quickly making a pull request to mention other implementations does this look good? (checking before I actually submit the pull request) https://github.com/jxl-community/jxl-community.github.io/commit/c3b86334f28e415948e1d3434fe4c4f16aafa98a
|
|
2023-06-05 07:51:52
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2023-06-05 07:52:03
|
this look good?
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_wb_
|
2023-06-05 07:53:02
|
Yes. There's also j40 btw
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username
|
2023-06-05 07:53:29
|
I am hesitant to mention J40 due to how incomplete it currently is
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Wolfbeast
|
2023-06-05 07:53:55
|
OH! speaking of: are you aware that jpegxl.info does not serve .jxl images with the correct MIME type? It marks them octet-stream.
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_wb_
|
2023-06-05 07:54:02
|
Yeah, it was the first alternative implementation though...
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Wolfbeast
OH! speaking of: are you aware that jpegxl.info does not serve .jxl images with the correct MIME type? It marks them octet-stream.
|
|
2023-06-05 07:54:18
|
Yeah that is github hosting that page...
|
|
2023-06-05 07:54:57
|
And looks like github is slow to get their mime db up to date...
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Traneptora
|
2023-06-05 07:54:57
|
yea, also nginx by default won't do that either
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spider-mario
|
2023-06-05 07:55:19
|
comment on the HN post:
> As a radiology software developer: please please let JPEG XL become a thing. I sincerely hope this might make Chrome change its mind. JPEG XL is a game changer for 16 bit lossless images. The technical landscape for these kinds of images today is barren.
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Traneptora
|
2023-06-05 07:55:44
|
playing devil's advocate, what about PNG?
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spider-mario
|
2023-06-05 07:55:55
|
its 16-bit compression is reportedly awful
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Traneptora
|
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190n
|
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spider-mario
its 16-bit compression is reportedly awful
|
|
2023-06-05 07:56:28
|
not surprising since i assume zlib would only see that as a stream of bytes
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Traneptora
|
|
Traneptora
yea, also nginx by default won't do that either
|
|
2023-06-05 07:56:43
|
but yea I have this in my nginx conf
```nginx
location ~ ^/.*\.jxl$ {
types {
image/jxl jxl;
}
}
```
|
|
2023-06-05 07:56:47
|
for context
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spider-mario
|
2023-06-05 07:56:58
|
I don’t know the full technical details but I vaguely recall something about compressing the upper and lower 8 bits separately? or something like that
|
|
2023-06-05 07:57:01
|
don’t take my word for it
|
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Traneptora
|
2023-06-05 07:57:17
|
PNG just uses rgb48be
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|
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spider-mario
|
2023-06-05 07:57:32
|
Jyrki or <@179701849576833024> will know
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|
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Traneptora
|
2023-06-05 07:57:33
|
16-bit R, 16-bit G, and 16-bit B
|
|
2023-06-05 07:57:39
|
in that order
|
|
2023-06-05 07:57:41
|
for one sample
|
|
2023-06-05 07:57:50
|
I think the problem is that zlib doesn't understand the context
|
|
2023-06-05 07:58:01
|
so you just take that stream (after filtering) and just zlib it
|
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veluca
|
2023-06-05 07:58:09
|
that is very true
|
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Traneptora
|
2023-06-05 07:58:17
|
compression density it's terrible
|
|
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|
veluca
|
2023-06-05 07:58:21
|
16-bit PNG is.... yeah
|
|
|
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Traneptora
|
2023-06-05 07:58:23
|
but in terms of support it's aight, I thought
|
|
2023-06-05 07:58:25
|
like it exists
|
|
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|
veluca
|
2023-06-05 07:58:28
|
terrible is a compliment
|
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lonjil
|
2023-06-05 08:00:12
|
I decided to post to reddit <https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/141pnwl/seems_like_safari_will_support_jpeg_xl_jxl>
|
|
|
|
Demiurge
|
|
I must disagree. Firefox in nonexistent on android on such a huge market and even on desktop is like 5%? Making only a browser is unprofitable and they don't seem to generate much from their other services.
|
|
2023-06-05 08:02:41
|
5% is a pretty significant slice. It used to be like 5 times higher once upon a time but like I said, they flushed it down the toilet
|
|
2023-06-05 08:02:45
|
And it's circling the drain now
|
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|
|
Traneptora
|
|
Demiurge
5% is a pretty significant slice. It used to be like 5 times higher once upon a time but like I said, they flushed it down the toilet
|
|
2023-06-05 08:03:47
|
caniuse reports between 2-3% but yea point stands
|
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|
Demiurge
|
2023-06-05 08:04:58
|
It keeps dropping lower and lower
|
|
2023-06-05 08:05:03
|
Their hair is on fire
|
|
2023-06-05 08:05:12
|
That's the only "fire" in firefox
|
|
2023-06-05 08:05:27
|
dumpster fire
|
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|
|
_wb_
|
2023-06-05 08:05:32
|
The thing with 16-bit png is also that the filtering is still byte based
|
|
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Traneptora
|
2023-06-05 08:05:39
|
is it? I didn't know that
|
|
2023-06-05 08:05:44
|
that's even worse than I thought
|
|
|
|
_wb_
|
2023-06-05 08:05:47
|
So the predictors don't make that much sense
|
|
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|
Traneptora
|
2023-06-05 08:05:47
|
might as well be uncompressed
|
|
|
|
veluca
|
|
|
_wb_
|
2023-06-05 08:06:29
|
And for use cases where you want more than 8-bit, it's not likely that general-purpose stuff like deflate is very useful at all
|
|
|
|
veluca
|
2023-06-05 08:06:30
|
that lowest byte is pretty much random noise
|
|
|
|
_wb_
|
2023-06-05 08:06:50
|
So yes, > 8-bit basically had nothing decent for lossless compression before jxl
|
|
2023-06-05 08:07:19
|
PNG, TIFF, AVIF can do it, but they all suck in their own ways
|
|
|
|
Traneptora
|
2023-06-05 08:12:57
|
out of curiosity, does anyone know how to configure nginx to serve a `.jxl` if `image/jxl` is in the accept headers, and to serve a fallback otherwise?
|
|
2023-06-05 08:13:07
|
or is that just easier to do with `<picture>` tags in the HTML
|
|
2023-06-05 08:14:29
|
(I control both)
|
|
|
|
_wb_
|
2023-06-05 08:15:15
|
HTML is easier if you don't want to configure servers, http content negotiation is imo the better method but trickier to do.
|
|
|
|
Traneptora
|
2023-06-05 08:15:50
|
the true solution is to just wait for safari to support JXL :D
|
|
2023-06-05 08:15:58
|
and then chrome and firefox follow
|
|
2023-06-05 08:16:00
|
and then you only serve JXL
|
|
2023-06-05 08:16:01
|
:D
|
|
|
|
lonjil
|
2023-06-05 08:21:55
|
does Shopify still serve JXL?
|
|
|
|
190n
|
2023-06-05 08:22:09
|
do we want to put safari on the software list? or not until they actually support it?
|
|
|
|
username
|
2023-06-05 08:22:28
|
maybe wait?
|
|
|
|
prick
|
2023-06-05 08:23:04
|
there is a recent chromium fork called thorium that supports jxl, also an image viewer jpegview
idc to open a pr to add them
|
|
2023-06-05 08:24:18
|
|
|
|
|
190n
|
2023-06-05 08:25:18
|
isn't thorium already listed there?
|
|
|
|
prick
|
2023-06-05 08:25:32
|
oh im blind
|
|
2023-06-05 08:26:07
|
jpegview isnt there though
|
|
|
|
username
|
|
lonjil
does Shopify still serve JXL?
|
|
2023-06-05 08:26:28
|
yep I just checked and they do
|
|
2023-06-05 08:27:21
|
oh wow and they actually fixed their logic for checking JXL support (edit: nvm still busted)
|
|
2023-06-05 08:27:40
|
it no longer requires avif support to also be present in the browser
|
|
|
|
prick
|
2023-06-05 08:28:02
|
this is very epic
|
|
|
|
username
|
|
username
it no longer requires avif support to also be present in the browser
|
|
2023-06-05 08:28:44
|
oh wait I might be wrong I think it's still a little busted which means palemoon won't get served JXL
|
|
|
|
prick
|
2023-06-05 08:29:06
|
next step after jxl conquers the web, wasm gets dom access so 9 gorillion megabytes of minified js isnt required everywhere
|
|
|
cucumber
|
2023-06-05 08:31:35
|
Just wanted to congratulate everyone involved in JXL for the amazing news.
|
|
|
cflat
|
|
username
oh wow and they actually fixed their logic for checking JXL support (edit: nvm still busted)
|
|
2023-06-05 08:32:08
|
what's the bug?
|
|
|
|
username
|
|
cflat
what's the bug?
|
|
2023-06-05 08:32:58
|
Shopify websites only serve JXL files if the browser connecting also supports AVIF
|
|
2023-06-05 08:33:26
|
which means that browsers like palemoon don't get JXL files on Shopify sites
|
|
|
|
haaaaah
|
2023-06-05 08:57:39
|
Coincidentally, I was checking the adoption of jxl between browsers the past 2 days
|
|
2023-06-05 09:01:06
|
Great news, if real! Maybe they're going to release a new product based on jxl?
|
|
|
|
cflat
|
|
username
which means that browsers like palemoon don't get JXL files on Shopify sites
|
|
2023-06-05 09:01:14
|
fix is being pushed now.
|
|
|
|
haaaaah
|
|
username
which means that browsers like palemoon don't get JXL files on Shopify sites
|
|
2023-06-05 09:03:10
|
I think Waterfox had the opposite problem before..
|
|
|
cflat
fix is being pushed now.
|
|
2023-06-05 09:05:13
|
Oh "bug" on palemoon side?
|
|
|
|
username
|
|
haaaaah
Oh "bug" on palemoon side?
|
|
2023-06-05 09:05:29
|
no it's just palemoon doesn't have support for AVIF and Shopify's logic only pushed JXL to browsers that also support AVIF. which can be tested in other browsers if you force AVIF support off
|
|
|
|
haaaaah
|
|
haaaaah
Coincidentally, I was checking the adoption of jxl between browsers the past 2 days
|
|
2023-06-05 09:07:10
|
I was looking for adoption information which is quite scarce. Specifically, completeness of adoption of features, like animation, partial display, saliency, hdr, color profiles, etc..
|
|
|
username
no it's just palemoon doesn't have support for AVIF and Shopify's logic only pushed JXL to browsers that also support AVIF. which can be tested in other browsers if you force AVIF support off
|
|
2023-06-05 09:08:49
|
That makes sense. Chrome and Firefox and browsers based on that having that by default..
So either the Shopify dev forgot to test that code path, or just feel like avif adoption is mandatory for jxl? Or maybe even serving avif instead of jxl in reality?
|
|
|
haaaaah
I was looking for adoption information which is quite scarce. Specifically, completeness of adoption of features, like animation, partial display, saliency, hdr, color profiles, etc..
|
|
2023-06-05 09:14:34
|
Just looking at the information.. It's very well supported in theory.
Basically most 3rd party browsers, open source ones generally, support the advanced features too.
Thorium, Mercury, Librefox, Waterfox, Palemoon. Thorium also uses libhighway for fast sse, which I'm not sure whether the Firefox browsers have the analog of.
Mostly got that from commits and patches, release notes.
|
|
|
|
username
|
|
haaaaah
Just looking at the information.. It's very well supported in theory.
Basically most 3rd party browsers, open source ones generally, support the advanced features too.
Thorium, Mercury, Librefox, Waterfox, Palemoon. Thorium also uses libhighway for fast sse, which I'm not sure whether the Firefox browsers have the analog of.
Mostly got that from commits and patches, release notes.
|
|
2023-06-05 09:15:43
|
the next major release of floorp (firefox fork) is gonna have JXL support https://github.com/Floorp-Projects/Floorp/pull/268
|
|
2023-06-05 09:16:00
|
also I wouldn't count Librewolf as supporting JXL
|
|
2023-06-05 09:16:47
|
Librewolf only has the basic support that default firefox does and it's turned off by default also
|
|
|
|
haaaaah
|
|
username
Librewolf only has the basic support that default firefox does and it's turned off by default also
|
|
2023-06-05 09:20:11
|
Good to know. I didn't test any, and the information is scarce. Maybe it's good to have a support matrix somewhere?
|
|
|
|
Squid Baron
|
2023-06-05 09:21:03
|
so is anyone here a registered apple developer? did you install macOS 14 beta? is the JXL support really there?
|
|
|
|
haaaaah
|
|
haaaaah
Just looking at the information.. It's very well supported in theory.
Basically most 3rd party browsers, open source ones generally, support the advanced features too.
Thorium, Mercury, Librefox, Waterfox, Palemoon. Thorium also uses libhighway for fast sse, which I'm not sure whether the Firefox browsers have the analog of.
Mostly got that from commits and patches, release notes.
|
|
2023-06-05 09:25:21
|
One other thing:
The test page being a single page isn't great when it causes crashes. I'd rather have a list of links to tests on the first page:
https://jpegxl.info/test-page/
Then subpages testing each feature like color / hdr, animation, partial loading / saliency separately. Perhaps some pages testing combinations of those features?
Maybe a separate https://jpegxl.info/test-page/all for those that need it
|
|
|
username
the next major release of floorp (firefox fork) is gonna have JXL support https://github.com/Floorp-Projects/Floorp/pull/268
|
|
2023-06-05 09:27:54
|
Didn't know about that one either, nice!
|
|
|
jonnyawsom3
|
|
190n
last i checked windows game bar hdr screenshots are jpeg xr
|
|
2023-06-05 10:21:11
|
Ahhh, this morning I wondered why there was a red-tinted screenshot with an odd extension in my Pictures folder haha
|
|
|
|
lonjil
|
2023-06-05 10:21:30
|
<https://developer.apple.com/documentation/safari-release-notes/safari-17-release-notes> change log dropped
|
|
|
Jim
|
2023-06-05 10:49:49
|
This is going to be the first bottom-up feature support. Apple has done this in the past with other formats with no success - mostly because they were not open-source / patent encumbered. This will likely be Safari's first bottom-up support push. Firefox will likely add it next then, only after overwhelming community demand and people already using it on Safari and Firefox, will Chrome add it.
|
|
|
VcSaJen
|
|
_wb_
I think this is the kind of news that is worthy of an @everyone ping. Sorry if you didn't want to get that notification. But it looks like Apple just announced that MacOS/Safari will be supporting JPEG XL. And that means that the likelihood that Chrome (and Firefox) will follow just increased by an order of magnitude. So it's a very big milestone for jxl adoption and the utility it will be able to bring to the web in particular.
|
|
2023-06-05 10:56:50
|
big
|
|
|
Sauerstoffdioxid
|
2023-06-05 11:01:54
|
Not sure if it's been mentioned, but it seems like they want to follow up on it soon
https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2023/10122/
|
|
|
|
lonjil
|
2023-06-05 11:14:29
|
Check it out
|
|
2023-06-05 11:15:03
|
iPadOS 17 beta
|
|
2023-06-05 11:15:09
|
It's out and working
|
|
|
|
Jim
|
2023-06-05 11:16:01
|
<:JXL:805850130203934781> <:Hypers:808826266060193874> <:Xjxl:822166843313225758>
|
|
|
Simulping
|
|
_wb_
I think this is the kind of news that is worthy of an @everyone ping. Sorry if you didn't want to get that notification. But it looks like Apple just announced that MacOS/Safari will be supporting JPEG XL. And that means that the likelihood that Chrome (and Firefox) will follow just increased by an order of magnitude. So it's a very big milestone for jxl adoption and the utility it will be able to bring to the web in particular.
|
|
2023-06-05 11:16:05
|
<:noway:1068869939378802699>
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2023-06-05 11:19:24
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apple suddenly based now?
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VcSaJen
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2023-06-05 11:19:38
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I think Microsoft will be the next. Windows OS and Edge.
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lonjil
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2023-06-05 11:20:07
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Animation is NOT working
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2023-06-05 11:20:35
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and webp animation is buggy it seems (looking at the test page rn)
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Jim
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VcSaJen
I think Microsoft will be the next. Windows OS and Edge.
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2023-06-05 11:20:52
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https://tenor.com/view/john-jonah-jameson-lol-laughing-hysterically-laughing-out-loud-funny-gif-17710543
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username
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lonjil
Check it out
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2023-06-05 11:21:58
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try these sites:
https://saklistudio.com/jxltests/
https://people.csail.mit.edu/ericchan/hdr/hdr-jxl.php
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veluca
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lonjil
Animation is NOT working
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2023-06-05 11:23:32
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eh, could be worse!
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2023-06-05 11:23:36
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I am curious about hdr too
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lonjil
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2023-06-05 11:28:17
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the HDR test images on Saklistudio look different from each other
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2023-06-05 11:28:31
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the CMYK image doesn't render at all
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username
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2023-06-05 11:28:54
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yeah it's like that in firefox and chromium also
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2023-06-05 11:29:03
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for HDR try that other site
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lonjil
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2023-06-05 11:29:31
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the images on the other site render, but I cannot tell how to tell whether it is working properly
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veluca
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2023-06-05 11:30:00
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standard problem 😛
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lonjil
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2023-06-05 11:30:05
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the images do look beautiful, should I assume that that means it's working? lol
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veluca
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2023-06-05 11:30:12
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could be!
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2023-06-05 11:30:22
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lemme see if I have one where I know how to tell
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Kampidh
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2023-06-05 11:30:43
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iirc HDR will look washed if it's not working properly?
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lonjil
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2023-06-05 11:31:40
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the colors are vibrant
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veluca
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2023-06-05 11:32:13
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https://old.lucaversari.it/jpeg_xl_data/hdr.jxl mind looking at this one and sending me a photo of what you see?
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lonjil
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2023-06-05 11:32:14
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so probably HDR stuff is being done at least *approximately* correctly, if not 100% (which is harder to tell)
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veluca
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2023-06-05 11:32:43
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I've seen that image enough many times that I should be able to tell xD
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VcSaJen
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Kampidh
iirc HDR will look washed if it's not working properly?
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2023-06-05 11:33:03
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I think it's wide gamut
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spider-mario
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2023-06-05 11:33:21
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both have the potential to look washed out when not supported
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2023-06-05 11:33:37
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PQ interpreted as if it were the sRGB tone curve kind of does that iirc
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veluca
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veluca
https://old.lucaversari.it/jpeg_xl_data/hdr.jxl mind looking at this one and sending me a photo of what you see?
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2023-06-05 11:34:14
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or you can also compare with https://old.lucaversari.it/jpeg_xl_data/jpeg_xl_png/ClassE_HancockKitchenInside.png - which is the same image, but in PNG
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spider-mario
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2023-06-05 11:34:16
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though I’m not sure we tried it either with narrow-gamut primaries or with proper support of the wide-gamut primaries
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2023-06-05 11:34:20
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so there may be some confounding
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lonjil
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veluca
https://old.lucaversari.it/jpeg_xl_data/hdr.jxl mind looking at this one and sending me a photo of what you see?
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2023-06-05 11:34:37
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spider-mario
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2023-06-05 11:34:51
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so it’s actually HDR?
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lonjil
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2023-06-05 11:35:01
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sure seems like it
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spider-mario
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veluca
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2023-06-05 11:35:05
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looks like it, yeah
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Kampidh
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veluca
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2023-06-05 11:35:38
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so this seems to be full non-animated jxl support
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2023-06-05 11:35:44
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... I'll take it
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username
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2023-06-05 11:36:09
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we haven't seen progressive yet:
https://google.github.io/attention-center/
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spider-mario
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2023-06-05 11:36:33
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so https://spider-mar.io/hdr/salon.jxl should work if it doesn’t mind the missing mime type
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2023-06-05 11:36:43
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(I should try to fix that)
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2023-06-05 11:37:08
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also https://spider-mar.io/hdr/piscine.jxl
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lonjil
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veluca
so this seems to be full non-animated jxl support
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2023-06-05 11:37:16
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also no CMYK
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veluca
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lonjil
also no CMYK
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2023-06-05 11:37:35
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I have to admit I don't actually care 😛
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VcSaJen
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2023-06-05 11:37:45
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So does it also mean that webkit-based browsers also support JPEG XL?
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lonjil
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username
we haven't seen progressive yet:
https://google.github.io/attention-center/
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2023-06-05 11:38:18
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not working until I set it to 100%
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eric.portis
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VcSaJen
So does it also mean that webkit-based browsers also support JPEG XL?
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2023-06-05 11:38:47
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Unless you see any JXL patches on the webkit project, this is probably Safari leveraging OS-level support
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lonjil
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VcSaJen
So does it also mean that webkit-based browsers also support JPEG XL?
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2023-06-05 11:38:56
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*maybe*? on Apple platforms I think Safari uses the OS codec framework
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eric.portis
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2023-06-05 11:39:26
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They actually brought AVIF to WebKit so it would work on older OSes, but that was a first: https://webkit.org/blog/13966/webkit-features-in-safari-16-4/#images-video-and-audio
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lonjil
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spider-mario
so https://spider-mar.io/hdr/salon.jxl should work if it doesn’t mind the missing mime type
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2023-06-05 11:39:44
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that's working
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Kampidh
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2023-06-05 11:40:51
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CMYK for web is kinda be the least concern~ I probably should add the XYB version for CMYK test there too, which most will render in sRGB instead
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VcSaJen
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eric.portis
Unless you see any JXL patches on the webkit project, this is probably Safari leveraging OS-level support
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2023-06-05 11:41:08
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I remember the opened ticket, don't remember if they agreed
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spider-mario
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2023-06-05 11:42:00
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when we inquired, they said that if the goal was to have it in Safari, it wasn’t going to be useful for that
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2023-06-05 11:42:16
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(see the responses to https://lists.webkit.org/pipermail/webkit-dev/2021-May/031844.html)
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username
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2023-06-05 11:43:35
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not having progressive loading support and animation support is a shame but hopefully it will be sorted out during the beta
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lonjil
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2023-06-05 11:44:21
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keep in mind that since this is OS wide support, it not working in Safari also means that CMYK isn't working in any other app either, including ones where that would maybe be important
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2023-06-05 11:44:37
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though it will probably be fixed before they exit beta
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veluca
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lonjil
keep in mind that since this is OS wide support, it not working in Safari also means that CMYK isn't working in any other app either, including ones where that would maybe be important
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2023-06-05 11:51:57
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do CMYK JPEGs (say) work?
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lonjil
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2023-06-05 11:52:15
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Do you have one handy?
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2023-06-05 11:54:39
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I think I found one, and it worked
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veluca
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2023-06-05 11:54:51
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interesting
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username
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2023-06-05 11:55:08
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on June 8 this video will release: https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2023/10122/
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derberg
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2023-06-05 11:55:21
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Apples Photos app seems to support JXL as well
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lonjil
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2023-06-05 11:55:52
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Most 3rd party apps should as well
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derberg
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2023-06-05 11:56:29
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Oh is this in some framework (beside the webkit thing) most apps use?
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lonjil
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2023-06-05 11:56:43
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Even discord properly renders JXLs during the upload, but ofc doesn't have an embed once it's a message
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derberg
Oh is this in some framework (beside the webkit thing) most apps use?
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2023-06-05 11:57:01
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Yeah
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2023-06-05 11:57:09
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Safari uses it too
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derberg
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2023-06-06 12:38:33
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I wil now try to get the leptonica author to work on support for it >: D
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2023-06-06 12:39:09
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If this has support, tesseract can support it as well
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2023-06-06 12:39:53
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pillow people are also open for support btw. but they said they barely have time and would prefer a PR
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2023-06-06 12:41:19
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Open issues at projects that don't support JXL and that should support it. It really helps adoption. Got writing support within imlib2 thanks to that (thus scrot is able to save as JXL now) as well as writing support in the gdk-pixbuf patch which then got the xfce4-screenshooter dev to make a few lines of changes to properly use that.
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190n
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2023-06-06 12:54:21
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oh you're right, what the heck?
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2023-06-06 12:54:32
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anyway i edited the timestamp
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lonjil
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2023-06-06 12:59:50
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they probably edited out any dead space from the start of the stream
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TheBigBadBoy - 𝙸𝚛
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2023-06-06 07:42:32
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by "update the topic" you mean edit the first message to mention safari will support it ?
If yes I'll do that in a few minutes <:pepeshy:854292785817321493>
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2023-06-06 07:52:53
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yep, doing it !
unfortunately I don't think it will change anything, I feel like Vivaldi won't do anything unless chromium supports it by default.
but we don't know until we try <:2_PepeHappy:654081052012314643>
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2023-06-06 08:13:57
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done <:chad:862625638238257183>
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VcSaJen
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Jim
https://tenor.com/view/john-jonah-jameson-lol-laughing-hysterically-laughing-out-loud-funny-gif-17710543
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2023-06-06 09:07:41
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Intel and Microsoft are close, and Intel needs JPEG XL for HDR.
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S1ft
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Sauerstoffdioxid
Not sure if it's been mentioned, but it seems like they want to follow up on it soon
https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2023/10122/
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2023-06-06 10:16:28
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Hopefully they also add av1 support for video, android has had software decoding on netflix since 2020 😦
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2023-06-06 10:17:10
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Jpegxl is better for images though
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runr855
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2023-06-06 10:21:50
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Is that confirmed in any capacity or just speculation? That Microsoft will add JXL support in Windows and Edge? They haven't always been the quickest to get things implemented
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_wb_
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2023-06-06 11:09:58
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I have nothing official, but last time I spoke with Microsoft people (which was just after the Chrome decision), they told me it is not a matter of "if" but "when", and that they are basically waiting for ecosystem adoption to prioritize it. So with Apple taking a clear position now (they are adding support), I would assume Windows will follow. Regarding Edge, they will probably just follow whatever Chrome does, I don't think they will bother to add it before they do.
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S1ft
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2023-06-06 11:38:49
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Android
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_wb_
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2023-06-06 11:39:14
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I was talking about Adobe, Microsoft and Firefox then. Apple is kind of secretive so I didn't know anything about their plans. Firefox seemed to be quite supportive of jxl back then, but a bit later they apparently changed their mind and moved to a "neutral" position, presumably because they didn't feel like being the only major browser to support something new, especially if that would pressure on their good relations with Chrome.
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S1ft
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2023-06-06 11:39:41
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Android & apple cover basically all phones on the market, apple & microsoft cover all computers sold in shops
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2023-06-06 11:41:37
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If apple & microsoft both adopt jpegxl, google will mostly likely cave in, especially with edge recently gaining adoption due to their ai
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_wb_
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2023-06-06 11:41:42
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But the Apple announcement is likely to change everything. I don't think Windows and Android can afford to stay behind now. With HEIC there's the patent mess, but with JXL there is no good reason not to support it. And then Firefox and Chrome will have to follow too.
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Quackdoc
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2023-06-06 11:46:17
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the issue with android is that even if they do decide to support it, you wont see it until like A15-16.
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S1ft
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2023-06-06 11:48:02
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Technically they could have it added in a minor addition, but who knows
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2023-06-06 11:48:59
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Android 14 making av1 mandatory hopefully will make apple implement it, and ios having jpeg xl will hopefully make google implement it XD
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jonnyawsom3
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2023-06-06 11:58:29
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Hopefully android gets some nice software implimentations for the older phones like mine that don't get updates but still aren't worth replacing
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_wb_
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2023-06-06 12:01:31
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Well at least Android Chrome can support jxl without Android supporting it
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2023-06-06 12:02:00
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same with default camera/gallery apps
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Quackdoc
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2023-06-06 12:02:24
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people have tried to get the devs for pix to include it in the past, but that was to no avail (the app kinda buggy anyways) aves could be a decent target but the app seems to be... a lot to work with. in general flutter(dart) could be a good target for jxl
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_wb_
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2023-06-06 12:03:33
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system-level support in Android is indeed much less useful than in iOS, because of the incredibly long tail of Android versions (compared to iOS) and because apps often package their own image libraries anyway (in contrast to iOS where there's a tendency to use system libraries, iiuc)
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Quackdoc
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2023-06-06 12:09:54
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yeah, other potential avenues for jxl support on android are jxlatte and jxl-oxide. kotlin plays really nicely with java so I could see that being useful for some devs looking for a more simple option.
and as for jxl-oxide, there are a couple up and coming UI kits for rust that will be supporting android. and I know I plan on dinking about with those regardless, so a basic image viewer using image-rs is something that would be pretty simple to do, and jxl-oxide fits nicely into that pipeline
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lonjil
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2023-06-06 12:10:29
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> (in contrast to iOS where there's a tendency to use system libraries, iiuc)
every app I've tried so far on iPad has "just worked" with JXL
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lonjil
I decided to post to reddit <https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/141pnwl/seems_like_safari_will_support_jpeg_xl_jxl>
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2023-06-06 12:12:27
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90% of the comments are GPT bots...
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Quackdoc
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lonjil
90% of the comments are GPT bots...
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2023-06-06 12:14:57
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oh joy
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veluca
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2023-06-06 12:22:29
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https://webkit.org/blog/14205/news-from-wwdc23-webkit-features-in-safari-17-beta/#images
it could be slightly more factually accurate 😛
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diskorduser
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lonjil
> (in contrast to iOS where there's a tendency to use system libraries, iiuc)
every app I've tried so far on iPad has "just worked" with JXL
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2023-06-06 12:22:42
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Do they use libjxl or a custom decoder? Is it possible to browse files of the OS of iPad ?
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lonjil
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2023-06-06 12:22:55
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It is not
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sklwmp
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2023-06-06 12:23:06
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> With support for progressive loading, it’s well suited for images served over slow connections, since users start to see the image before the whole file is downloaded.
Doesn't Safari not support progressive JXL atm?
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_wb_
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2023-06-06 12:23:25
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> JPEG XL uses a new compression algorithm called “Modular Entropy Coding” that allows for greater flexibility in adjusting the compression ratio.
Did they use chatGPT to come up with that?
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veluca
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_wb_
> JPEG XL uses a new compression algorithm called “Modular Entropy Coding” that allows for greater flexibility in adjusting the compression ratio.
Did they use chatGPT to come up with that?
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2023-06-06 12:23:37
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hahahah
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lonjil
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2023-06-06 12:23:45
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Someone who is using the macOS beta will have to check if it's using libjxl
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leo vriska
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_wb_
I have nothing official, but last time I spoke with Microsoft people (which was just after the Chrome decision), they told me it is not a matter of "if" but "when", and that they are basically waiting for ecosystem adoption to prioritize it. So with Apple taking a clear position now (they are adding support), I would assume Windows will follow. Regarding Edge, they will probably just follow whatever Chrome does, I don't think they will bother to add it before they do.
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2023-06-06 12:28:27
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they just added webp support in photos less than a month ago, didn't they?
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spider-mario
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2023-06-06 12:29:02
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> And you can recompress existing JPEG files into JPEG XL without any loss of data while significantly reducing their size — up to 60%!
they seem to have mixed up a couple of figures
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_wb_
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2023-06-06 12:29:06
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> And you can recompress existing JPEG files into JPEG XL without any loss of data while significantly reducing their size — up to 60%!
That is also quite drastically wrong. Lossless recompression of JPEG will give you ~20% size reduction. The 60% size reduction is only true if you compare something like JPEG produced by a camera vs JXL produced from the same raw data at a quality similar to the JPEG quality.
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veluca
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_wb_
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2023-06-06 12:30:22
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anyway, regardless of those silly statements, the important thing is this:
> JPEG XL will be supported by WebKit for Safari 17, Safari View Controller and WKWebView on macOS Sonoma, macOS Ventura and macOS Monterey, as well as iOS, iPadOS, watchOS, and visionOS.
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2023-06-06 12:32:43
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even if it isn't loading progressively (which may never happen in Safari, I don't know if they even properly support progressive JPEG, I can imagine that they just don't have an internal API for that), and animation doesn't work, that's a huge win
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2023-06-06 12:33:21
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animation isn't the strong point of jxl anyway, it shines for still images and for HDR, and that seems to work
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veluca
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2023-06-06 12:41:10
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I'll take non-progressive non-animated JXL 😛
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lonjil
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2023-06-06 12:42:26
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I have been told that system frameworks on macOS are stored all together in a giant blob
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2023-06-06 12:42:38
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so you won't find a libjxl.dylib file anywhere
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novov
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2023-06-06 12:48:55
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avif didn’t support animation when it was introduced in 16.1 but that was added in 16.4 afaik
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_wb_
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2023-06-06 01:24:13
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feel free to ask them to correct it, it is never a good idea to purposefully spread false info. But it might not be easy to get things corrected 🙂
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jonnyawsom3
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leo vriska
they just added webp support in photos less than a month ago, didn't they?
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2023-06-06 01:32:03
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Ah, Windows 11 only
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Foxtrot
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2023-06-06 03:43:58
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I requested re-opening of the original issue about adding JPEG XL in Chromium: https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=1451807
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afed
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2023-06-06 07:12:56
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https://github.com/Fyrd/caniuse/pull/6737
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2023-06-06 07:13:01
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<https://caniuse.com/jpegxl>
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Foxtrot
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2023-06-06 08:09:20
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Since Apple added JPEG XL, just a reminder that you can vote to add JPEG XL to Windows in Feedback Hub app:
https://aka.ms/AAk3a38
And here you can vote for adding support into MS Edge:
https://feedbackportal.microsoft.com/feedback/idea/b4c8313c-9b6a-ed11-a81b-6045bdaf6a9e
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_wb_
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2023-06-06 08:26:22
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They never bothered to respond to these, but I guess they can close them now 🙂
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lonjil
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2023-06-06 10:24:06
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I used a reddit app, Apollo, and tried to upload a JXL to reddit. It automatically converted into a JPEG. I doubt Apollo has special support for this, nor reddit, so it seems Apple's media framework handles converting to JPEG automatically for cases like that.
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jonnyawsom3
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2023-06-06 10:27:06
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Wonder what metadata those jpegs have, could hint what they're using
|
|
|
|
lonjil
|
2023-06-06 10:31:58
|
wait... it looks correct in chrome, but washed out in qimgv
hdr jpeg??
|
|
2023-06-06 10:36:23
|
someone who knows how jpeg works look at this https://cdn.lonjil.xyz/fdbcefe61c89d335/pfW9ODQ.jpg
|
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|
|
username
|
|
lonjil
someone who knows how jpeg works look at this https://cdn.lonjil.xyz/fdbcefe61c89d335/pfW9ODQ.jpg
|
|
2023-06-06 10:43:40
|
I think it just makes use of a icc profile and qimgv probably isn't properly color managed
|
|
2023-06-06 10:44:12
|
|
|
|
|
Traneptora
|
|
lonjil
wait... it looks correct in chrome, but washed out in qimgv
hdr jpeg??
|
|
2023-06-06 10:50:42
|
what about in mpv?
|
|
|
|
novov
|
2023-06-06 10:53:50
|
That’s for docs.webkit.org, not the blog
And they very rarely update that from what I’ve seen so it probably won’t get picked up there
|
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|
|
lonjil
|
|
Traneptora
what about in mpv?
|
|
2023-06-06 10:54:56
|
washed out
|
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|
|
Traneptora
|
2023-06-06 10:55:31
|
hm, open bug report
|
|
2023-06-06 10:55:55
|
ur using gpu-next, right?
|
|
|
|
lonjil
|
2023-06-06 10:56:46
|
probably not
|
|
2023-06-06 10:59:19
|
bottom is original jxl on ipad. right is exported jpeg in chrome. left is same jpeg in mpv.
|
|
2023-06-06 10:59:58
|
opening the original jxl in mpv makes it look like the jpeg does in chrome
|
|
2023-06-06 11:00:39
|
```
#### video rendering ####
vo=gpu
profile=gpu-hq
```
|
|
2023-06-06 11:02:41
|
<@853026420792360980> gpu-next looks the same but also prints this out:
```
[vo/gpu-next/libplacebo] Detected profile gamma (1.831) very far from pure power response (stddev=0.7), suspected unusual or broken profile. Using anyway, but results may be poor.
[vo/gpu-next/libplacebo] Failed detecting ICC profile black point!
[vo/gpu-next/libplacebo] Failed opening ICC profile... ignoring
```
|
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|
|
Traneptora
|
2023-06-06 11:04:39
|
I thought that was fixed, huh
|
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|
|
lonjil
|
2023-06-06 11:04:51
|
lemme see what version im on
|
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Traneptora
|
2023-06-06 11:05:07
|
also libplacebo version
|
|
|
|
lonjil
|
2023-06-06 11:05:17
|
```
% mpv --version
mpv 0.35.0-UNKNOWN Copyright © 2000-2023 mpv/MPlayer/mplayer2 projects
built on UNKNOWN
libplacebo version: v5.264.1
FFmpeg version: 6.0
FFmpeg library versions:
libavutil 58.2.100
libavcodec 60.3.100
libavformat 60.3.100
libswscale 7.1.100
libavfilter 9.3.100
libswresample 5.0.100
```
|
|
2023-06-06 11:07:54
|
since libplacebo seems to be of interest, this error was also present
```
[vo/gpu-next] Failed mapping filter function 'ewa_lanczossoft', no libplacebo analog?
```
|
|
|
|
Traneptora
|
2023-06-06 11:08:33
|
deprecated and removed
|
|
|
|
lonjil
|
|
|
Traneptora
|
|
lonjil
```
% mpv --version
mpv 0.35.0-UNKNOWN Copyright © 2000-2023 mpv/MPlayer/mplayer2 projects
built on UNKNOWN
libplacebo version: v5.264.1
FFmpeg version: 6.0
FFmpeg library versions:
libavutil 58.2.100
libavcodec 60.3.100
libavformat 60.3.100
libswscale 7.1.100
libavfilter 9.3.100
libswresample 5.0.100
```
|
|
2023-06-06 11:13:55
|
looks like https://code.videolan.org/videolan/libplacebo/-/commit/5f44a16fb2ebf2e1893b847429dabf5595fed730 never made it into the 5.264 branch
|
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|
|
lonjil
|
2023-06-06 11:15:35
|
ah
|
|
2023-06-06 11:15:56
|
🙏
|
|
|
|
Traneptora
|
2023-06-06 11:16:18
|
I'm using git master and it's pretty bright, def not washed out
|
|
2023-06-06 11:16:21
|
looks like it does in chrome
|
|
|
|
lonjil
|
2023-06-06 11:18:10
|
mm
|
|
2023-06-06 11:18:31
|
I don't open many images in mpv, so I am not really impacted
|
|
2023-06-06 11:20:03
|
incidentally, the original jxl looks like this in various linux apps that aren't mpv
|
|
|
|
Traneptora
|
2023-06-06 11:20:27
|
looks like they're not doing peak detection
|
|
2023-06-06 11:20:44
|
which is usually required for HDR content on SDR screens
|
|
2023-06-06 11:20:55
|
otherwise you get these sorts of issues
|
|
2023-06-06 11:21:23
|
decode the JXL with jxlatte and use `--png-peak-detect=no` and you should get a similar result
|
|
|
|
lonjil
|
2023-06-06 11:22:55
|
mm
|
|
2023-06-06 11:26:50
|
btw, my mpv config is still mostly the same as when I asked for a copy of yours 6 years ago
|
|
|
bonnibel
|
|
Traneptora
deprecated and removed
|
|
2023-06-06 11:27:31
|
(ewa_lanczos is now identical to the old ewa_lanczossoft/sharp as its got the fixed radius they had, if you want to softening/sharpening on top of that theres a separate option for that too)
|
|
|
|
lonjil
|
2023-06-06 11:30:43
|
yes, I was using both the sharp and the soft one, and for sharp I got a deprecation notice telling me what blur value to use
|
|
2023-06-06 11:30:51
|
but apparently the same was not implemented for soft
|
|
|
|
bonnibel
|
2023-06-06 11:31:20
|
would be fun to run a big benchmark sometime getting ssimu2 scores for a whole bunch of combinations of mpv gpu-next scalers + scaler options (radius, window functions & params, taper, clamp, antiring, etc)
|
|
2023-06-06 11:32:05
|
some glsl shaders do a better job but are also a lot more intensive to run
|
|
|
lonjil
but apparently the same was not implemented for soft
|
|
2023-06-06 11:32:12
|
blur of 1.015
|
|
|
|
lonjil
|
2023-06-06 11:35:32
|
danke
|
|
2023-06-07 12:34:31
|
Turns out that iOS doesn't support ICCv4, despite generating ICCv4 JPEGs when you export JXL files.
|
|
2023-06-07 12:41:40
|
or partial support, rather
|
|
2023-06-07 01:16:47
|
I don't know
|
|
2023-06-07 01:17:06
|
And unfortunately I don't have any way of exporting JPEGs that won't mess with them further
|
|
|
|
username
|
2023-06-07 01:18:02
|
here is a transcoded JPEG to JXL you could probably use for testing
|
|
|
|
lonjil
|
2023-06-07 01:18:37
|
JPEG exports are for apps that specifically ask for it due needing to support things outside the Apple ecosystem, and all such apps that I have installed do stuff like upload to online services which strip some metadata, so I have no way of getting the exact JPEG generated during export.
|
|
|
|
username
|
2023-06-07 01:20:47
|
the exact same byte for byte file doesn't matter too much it's mostly about if the image data inside of the JPEG renders out to the same exact quality when decoded with the same JPEG decoder
|
|
|
|
lonjil
|
2023-06-07 01:22:22
|
here it is <https://i.imgur.com/5dgYYjj.jpg>
|
|
|
|
username
|
|
lonjil
here it is <https://i.imgur.com/5dgYYjj.jpg>
|
|
2023-06-07 01:25:41
|
|
|
2023-06-07 01:26:08
|
yeah that jpeg on imgur is re-encoded
|
|
|
|
lonjil
|
2023-06-07 01:26:46
|
just like when apple was doing "lossless" reencoding with obviously visible artfacts 😄
|
|
2023-06-07 01:27:38
|
I'm guessing their media framework always decodes to pixels and then does the JPEG encoding the same way regardless of input format
|
|
2023-06-07 01:28:02
|
though I wonder what causes it to emit ICCv4 profiles that don't even work on iOS...
|
|
2023-06-07 01:29:58
|
lossless transcode *to* JXL, but you may never leave 😉
|
|
|
|
jonnyawsom3
|
2023-06-07 02:09:30
|
Did they? I thought the JXl annoucnement was delegated to the word "Jpeg XL" in the presentation and just "Added Jpeg XL Support" in the release notes
|
|
|
yoochan
|
2023-06-07 06:53:18
|
I read here that safari relies on a generic lib to handle images, why doesn't chrome do the same ?
|
|
|
|
novov
|
2023-06-07 06:56:58
|
Safari is only on Apple platforms so Apple can control what libraries the OS has
Chrome has to work across Mac, Windows, and Linux in a predictable and consistent fashion
|
|
|
|
yoochan
|
2023-06-07 06:59:33
|
why consistency should be a desirable goal ? linux have gdk pixbuf, windows WIC, mac GD, it could just rely on each and offer features as soon as each OS level lib offer the feature...
|
|
|
|
novov
|
2023-06-07 07:08:21
|
That means web developers have to work around the quirks of 3 different imaging libraries, and most likely they can’t directly test two of them
and let’s say the Chrome team discovers a bug in one of those, then they have to coordinate back and forth with another company, and OS bug fixes usually don’t land as quick as browser ones
|
|
|
|
yoochan
|
2023-06-07 07:15:58
|
web developpers already have to work around depending on the browser type, and the accept: MIMETYPE exists
|
|
|
|
novov
|
2023-06-07 07:22:04
|
3 browser engines is a lot less than 3 * many many different versions of OSes
Not just major releases, but point releases may fix a bug that exists for instance
Ofc browsers have different versions too but they usually auto update really seamlessly
|
|
|
Nova Aurora
|
|
yoochan
why consistency should be a desirable goal ? linux have gdk pixbuf, windows WIC, mac GD, it could just rely on each and offer features as soon as each OS level lib offer the feature...
|
|
2023-06-07 09:08:37
|
Because it becomes a chore to develop for. Between Mac, windows wic and other codec APIs (there's multiple), Linux GDK and Qt Images, plus android's system codecs, not to mention tracking different versions of these libraries, or that many allow for partial installs, where the list of codecs change even if the version number stays the same, Chrome would rather have a single unified codebase that can be predicted, fuzzed, audited, and shipped.
|
|
|
|
VcSaJen
|
|
yoochan
I read here that safari relies on a generic lib to handle images, why doesn't chrome do the same ?
|
|
2023-06-07 09:08:42
|
AFAIR MS Edge does that for video
|
|
|
|
yoochan
|
|
|
Nova Aurora
|
|
VcSaJen
AFAIR MS Edge does that for video
|
|
2023-06-07 09:10:20
|
How does that work for non-windows? Does it fall back to chromium?
|
|
|
|
yoochan
|
2023-06-07 09:10:59
|
sorry I'm too influenced by the architecture of linux, where everybody does its job and you don't need to unzip a bloat of libraries since they are gracefully handled by the paclage manager 😄
|
|
|
|
Nova Aurora
|
|
yoochan
sorry I'm too influenced by the architecture of linux, where everybody does its job and you don't need to unzip a bloat of libraries since they are gracefully handled by the paclage manager 😄
|
|
2023-06-07 09:13:18
|
Flatpak does do that though for the same reason Chrome does: if all the libraries are the same and sandboxed the app is more predictable
|
|
|
|
yoochan
|
2023-06-07 09:16:56
|
and I find flatpak and snap very sad for this reason (and the fact snaps don't handle disks mounted on /mnt by default) because I feel that the OS as a whole could benefit from the work done on the libraries instead of just packaging modified versions saying "good by assholes, I package my own version because I can't spend more time on my makefile"...
|
|
|
|
jonnyawsom3
|
2023-06-07 01:01:53
|
Ah right, I thought you meant from Apple itself rather than the webkit post
|
|
|
|
spider-mario
|
|
lonjil
wait... it looks correct in chrome, but washed out in qimgv
hdr jpeg??
|
|
2023-06-07 01:41:11
|
yes, ICCv4 now supports a CICP tag, which libjxl generates in its ICC profiles
|
|
2023-06-07 01:41:18
|
and Chrome supports reading it
|
|
2023-06-07 01:41:45
|
so PNGs/JPEGs produced by libjxl from HDR JXLs will display in HDR in Chrome
|
|
|
lonjil
bottom is original jxl on ipad. right is exported jpeg in chrome. left is same jpeg in mpv.
|
|
2023-06-07 01:42:24
|
that’s in the dedicated Photos app, right?
|
|
|
|
lonjil
|
|
|
spider-mario
|
2023-06-07 01:42:41
|
it seems Safari doesn’t display HDR, unless I’m missing something
|
|
2023-06-07 01:42:51
|
but once saved locally and opened in Photos, it’s HDR
|
|
2023-06-07 01:44:47
|
(this is for JXL images)
|
|
|
|
lonjil
|
|
lonjil
Turns out that iOS doesn't support ICCv4, despite generating ICCv4 JPEGs when you export JXL files.
|
|
2023-06-07 01:45:19
|
so it's probably the CICP tag that isn't working on iOS in JPEGs
|
|
|
|
spider-mario
|
2023-06-07 01:49:55
|
hm, the Files app doesn’t seem to display JXL (at least HDR ones) properly, _but_ it can generate HDR HEIFs from them that do display correctly
|
|
|
|
lonjil
|
2023-06-07 01:50:15
|
funny
|
|
2023-06-07 01:50:47
|
do you know a good tool can I use to inspect the ICC profile in an image?
|
|
|
|
spider-mario
|
2023-06-07 01:51:07
|
imagemagick to extract it (`convert img.png img.icc`), then `displaycal-profile-info`
|
|
2023-06-07 01:52:04
|
or, on macOS, ColorSync Utility
|
|
2023-06-07 01:52:34
|
on Linux, `cd-iccdump` (from colord) is a bit rough but can occasionally be useful
|
|
|
|
lonjil
|
2023-06-07 01:56:14
|
hm yup there's a CICP tag in the JPEG exported from the Photos app
|
|
|
|
jonnyawsom3
|
2023-06-07 02:04:30
|
Huh, *technically* backwards compatible HDR jpegs from JXL... There's a hidden selling point
|
|
|
lonjil
someone who knows how jpeg works look at this https://cdn.lonjil.xyz/fdbcefe61c89d335/pfW9ODQ.jpg
|
|
2023-06-07 04:11:48
|
Someone mentioned android creating HDR jpegs in future on the chromium tracker for JpegXL (<https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=1178058#c408>), wondered if I could use that link as an example of JXL already doing it now
|
|
|
|
lonjil
|
2023-06-07 04:16:21
|
The ones produced by libjxl aren't very compatible with legacy decoders and viewers, unfortunately, since you get a washed out picture without CICP support, rather than a correct SDR rendering.
|
|
2023-06-07 04:17:32
|
the documentation for Ultra HDE indicates that legacy systems display something that looks like a correct SDR rendering of the image.
|
|
|
|
spider-mario
|
|
lonjil
The ones produced by libjxl aren't very compatible with legacy decoders and viewers, unfortunately, since you get a washed out picture without CICP support, rather than a correct SDR rendering.
|
|
2023-06-07 04:28:45
|
working on that https://github.com/libjxl/libjxl/pull/1890
|
|
2023-06-07 04:29:22
|
(it won’t be the best tone mapping ever but maybe better than what currently happens)
|
|
|
|
lonjil
|
|
|
jonnyawsom3
|
2023-06-07 04:32:47
|
Alright, I'll hold off for now then, maybe just leave it completely since I'm not sure you can actually reply to comments on the tracker anyway
|
|
|
Moritz Firsching
|
2023-06-08 12:37:04
|
https://chromium-review.googlesource.com/c/chromium/src/+/4255409
Is my most recent patch (from two months ago)
I guess there shouldn't be too much that changed in between...
|
|
|
|
jonnyawsom3
|
2023-06-08 03:05:54
|
Thought I'd mention the video has been released, watching it at the moment https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2023/10122/
|
|
|
|
VcSaJen
|
2023-06-08 03:10:31
|
Generally you shouldn't send user to server and instead describe it in the post itself.
https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/topic/187302-jpeg-xl-questions-and-improvements/
|
|
|
|
jonnyawsom3
|
|
Thought I'd mention the video has been released, watching it at the moment https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2023/10122/
|
|
2023-06-08 03:10:46
|
Ah... So that's why Webkit got the info wrong... Apple themselves got it wrong too
|
|
2023-06-08 03:19:33
|
The only point they made about JpegXL was lossless recompression of old Jpeg files, *up to 60%*, while showing the 20% it can actually get. At least they got the load order right ;P
|
|
|
|
_wb_
|
2023-06-08 03:33:23
|
I like how they're saying about avif:
"you should include it as fallback"
and about heic:
"since it's not widely supported on other platforms, you will probably only want to use it as an alternative format"
|
|
|
|
jonnyawsom3
|
2023-06-08 03:43:48
|
At least they're being honest about what works best, even if they're a bit misguided on JXL
|
|
|
|
_wb_
|
2023-06-08 03:48:42
|
They did fix it on https://webkit.org/blog/14205/news-from-wwdc23-webkit-features-in-safari-17-beta/#images
|
|
|
Eugene Vert
|
2023-06-08 03:51:59
|
> And you can recompress existing JPEG files into JPEG XL without any loss of data, while reducing their size by an average of 20%. Or compress from the original image file to create a file that’s up to 60% smaller compared to JPEG!
|
|
|
|
jonnyawsom3
|
2023-06-08 03:57:38
|
Yeah, just a shame they only mentioned 1 point in the video and managed to get it wrong
|
|
|
|
Quackdoc
|
2023-06-08 03:57:47
|
they really like that 60% number huh
|
|
|
|
_wb_
|
2023-06-08 04:01:39
|
tbh it's more like 40-50% even in the case of compressing from pixels, but I guess marketing always rounds numbers up 🙂
|
|
2023-06-08 04:03:00
|
it's not as bad as what they're saying about avif:
> AVIF can be up to ten times smaller than JPEG
|
|
2023-06-08 04:03:18
|
not at the same quality though 🙂
|
|
|
BlueSwordM
|
|
_wb_
not at the same quality though 🙂
|
|
2023-06-08 04:05:39
|
For animations, they aren't wrong 😂
|
|
|
|
jonnyawsom3
|
2023-06-08 04:11:13
|
Behold, brand new 'scaling' technology that reduces filesize to just 0.3% of JPEG
|
|
2023-06-08 04:12:01
|
Just close your eyes and you can't even tell the difference!
|
|
2023-06-08 04:13:47
|
Unironically, I'm actually surprised how much detail still fit into 64 pixels
|
|
|
|
derberg
|
|
_wb_
it's not as bad as what they're saying about avif:
> AVIF can be up to ten times smaller than JPEG
|
|
2023-06-08 05:12:26
|
Yeah, that could really push a lot of people towards AVIF...
|
|
|
|
DZgas Ж
|
|
The only point they made about JpegXL was lossless recompression of old Jpeg files, *up to 60%*, while showing the 20% it can actually get. At least they got the load order right ;P
|
|
2023-06-08 05:45:18
|
jxl is not the first <:PepeSadCatGun:973222795150508082>
|
|
|
|
yoochan
|
|
DZgas Ж
jxl is not the first <:PepeSadCatGun:973222795150508082>
|
|
2023-06-08 07:55:28
|
do you know another format with an upgrade path as easy as this one ?
|
|
|
|
jonnyawsom3
|
2023-06-08 08:22:29
|
I think he meant JXL wasn't the first format to try and load, but Apple being Apple they'd always want their own first
|
|
|
|
veluca
|
|
_wb_
tbh it's more like 40-50% even in the case of compressing from pixels, but I guess marketing always rounds numbers up 🙂
|
|
2023-06-08 09:05:40
|
you do get 60% at, like, very high quality
|
|
2023-06-08 09:05:52
|
not quality most people would use for the web 😛
|
|
|
|
jonnyawsom3
|
2023-06-08 09:54:57
|
My quick test is almost exactly 20% jpeg recompression, 68% from pixels at `d 1` and `d 5` to hit the ten times smaller they said about AVIF. Which also made me realise Krita seems to fail reading images with no printout of the error
|
|
2023-06-08 09:55:47
|
So actually, they were simultaneously overselling and underselling at once
|
|
|
|
VcSaJen
|
2023-06-09 02:32:03
|
Anyone thought about making PR to IceRaven (fork of Firefox for Android)?
https://github.com/fork-maintainers/iceraven-browser
|
|
|
fab
|
2023-06-09 05:51:50
|
the image at more than e7 d0-656 e8 d0-504 e9 q95 shows sign of degradation even with jon precision branch
|
|
2023-06-09 05:52:14
|
the degradation is subtle not as high as before this commit
|
|
2023-06-09 05:52:26
|
but you need to consider
|
|
|
|
jonnyawsom3
|
2023-06-09 06:08:00
|
Distance 656?
|
|
|
monad
|
2023-06-09 07:05:21
|
0-656 = -656, so somewhat better than original quality
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jonnyawsom3
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2023-06-09 07:14:09
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It seeks out the original source file by crawling the internet and trying to find open computer ports
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2023-06-09 07:14:27
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Or maybe that's `-d -666`
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_wb_
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2023-06-09 10:19:12
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So if I understand correctly, it's not just Safari but WebKit in general that has jxl support now, right? https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=208235
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username
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2023-06-09 10:20:38
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I tried to look into that and I honestly couldn't tell, I know it relates to JXL support outside of Apple's OSes in some way but I don't know to what extent.
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2023-06-09 10:22:32
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either way I know that WebKit in some form allows the use of JXL outside of Apple's OSes
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_wb_
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2023-06-09 10:22:48
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I think it means Gnome Web and Konqueror and anything else that is WebKit-based will get jxl enabled by default too
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2023-06-09 10:24:05
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I know Safari will support jxl also on older versions of macOS that don't have jxl support yet
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2023-06-09 10:25:20
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they're doing the same thing as they did with avif: on older macOS they're still making it work in Safari
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spider-mario
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2023-06-09 11:20:44
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someone recently remarked:
> c'est quand même génial que ~tout le web moderne soit basé sur Konqueror
>
> qui aurait parié ça
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2023-06-09 11:21:02
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(“it’s quite amazing that ~all the modern web is based on Konqueror”
“who could have seen that coming”)
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gb82
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_wb_
it's not as bad as what they're saying about avif:
> AVIF can be up to ten times smaller than JPEG
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2023-06-09 11:51:36
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I don't know how they got this number
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2023-06-09 11:51:55
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and they talked about how the AV1 video codec was efficient despite not supporting AV1 <:KekDog:805390049033191445>
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_wb_
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gb82
I don't know how they got this number
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2023-06-09 11:57:22
|
looks like that claim is made in a few spots:
https://www.smashingmagazine.com/2021/09/modern-image-formats-avif-webp/#avif-benefits
> Images can be up to ten times smaller than JPEGs of similar visual quality.
(even though the next sentence says it is 50% smaller)
https://simplified.com/blog/design/convert-avif-to-jpg/
> With the same image quality, an AVIF file is 10 times smaller than a JPEG so they take up less storage space.
https://convertio.co/avif-jpeg/
> AVIF file size is 10 times smaller than JPEG with the same image quality.
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gb82
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_wb_
looks like that claim is made in a few spots:
https://www.smashingmagazine.com/2021/09/modern-image-formats-avif-webp/#avif-benefits
> Images can be up to ten times smaller than JPEGs of similar visual quality.
(even though the next sentence says it is 50% smaller)
https://simplified.com/blog/design/convert-avif-to-jpg/
> With the same image quality, an AVIF file is 10 times smaller than a JPEG so they take up less storage space.
https://convertio.co/avif-jpeg/
> AVIF file size is 10 times smaller than JPEG with the same image quality.
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2023-06-09 12:01:59
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They use their eyes I'm sure, and aren't properly understood on the meaning of fidelity
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2023-06-09 12:03:27
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I'm tempted to make a well-produced "which image format should I use" YouTube video like the Apple guy made but with actual factual information that is informative and makes sense lmao. AVIF is great but I don't think people shilling so hard for it with fake numbers helps its case at all
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_wb_
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2023-06-09 12:04:57
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no idea where that claim was made for the first time but it's hilariously wrong to say AVIF is 10 times smaller than same-quality JPEG. At least the Apple guy didn't say "same quality"...
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2023-06-09 12:10:36
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here's a ~100kb jpeg
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2023-06-09 12:10:50
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here's a 10x smaller avif
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2023-06-09 12:11:00
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Quackdoc
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_wb_
I think it means Gnome Web and Konqueror and anything else that is WebKit-based will get jxl enabled by default too
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2023-06-09 01:10:18
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konk uses chromium now doesn't it? qtwebkit was deprecated a couple years ago I think gnome web is the only general use browser left that actually uses webkit
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Foxtrot
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2023-06-09 01:12:07
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I again read through Mozilla position on JPEG XL and I dont understand the part under line.
> We also request that people seeking to provide updates on changes in market conditions refrain from doing so. We can re-open a position when there is new information, but updates on market conditions will not typically cause us to change our position here.
What does that mean? That we shouldnt point out when new browsers start supporting JPEG XL (like Safari) and even if we did, it wouldnt change Mozilla position?
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Quackdoc
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2023-06-09 01:13:57
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i means that mozilla doesn't care about their web browser and hasn't for the last few years xD
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Foxtrot
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2023-06-09 01:23:21
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next two browsers behind Safari according to market share are Edge and Opera. Dunno if it's possible to convince them to add JXL support since both are based on Chromium.
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username
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2023-06-09 01:25:07
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I wouldn't count on Opera but maybe there is a chance that Edge will do something besides waiting around for Chrome
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Foxtrot
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2023-06-09 01:26:00
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like zombies following chrome lol
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username
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2023-06-09 01:26:52
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there is a decent following here: https://github.com/brave/brave-browser/issues/28411
it has been silent for a while though but the recent news with Apple might push it forward.
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Foxtrot
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2023-06-09 01:27:35
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for edge our only hope is to gather more votes for this feature request https://feedbackportal.microsoft.com/feedback/idea/b4c8313c-9b6a-ed11-a81b-6045bdaf6a9e
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2023-06-09 01:28:12
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I mean, Brave is nice but you wont convince Google with browser that has under 1% of market share
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jonnyawsom3
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username
I wouldn't count on Opera but maybe there is a chance that Edge will do something besides waiting around for Chrome
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2023-06-09 03:22:45
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I was tempted to say something to Opera GX's insane twitter guy, they certainly seem to read all the replies and messages at least
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username
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2023-06-09 03:24:35
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they likely have almost 0 power towards the browser development
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kb
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_wb_
So if I understand correctly, it's not just Safari but WebKit in general that has jxl support now, right? https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=208235
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2023-06-09 09:29:05
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> JPEG XL is the future of all image formats
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derberg
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_wb_
I think it means Gnome Web and Konqueror and anything else that is WebKit-based will get jxl enabled by default too
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2023-06-09 10:03:15
|
This made me check what is webkit based:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_web_browsers#WebKit-based>
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_web_browsers#Webkit-_and_Trident-based>
QQ Browser
Dolphin Browser
are kinda interesting since those are web browsers for Android. And I kinda think (without having it checked), that the QQ one has a big market share in China.
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2023-06-09 10:06:41
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7.27% according to statcounter
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Sauerstoffdioxid
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2023-06-09 10:13:00
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I am not sure how accurate that list is. German wikipedia lists Dolphin as "used to use webkit but switched to blink/chromium"
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2023-06-09 10:15:12
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~~or maybe I've mixed things up and confused it for another one. The current german wikipedia entry looks different from the one I thought I remembered~~
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afed
|
2023-06-09 10:18:38
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probably also implies that qq messenger uses the same engine
also telegram supports jpeg xl, it might be worth adding to the list
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Nova Aurora
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_wb_
it's not as bad as what they're saying about avif:
> AVIF can be up to ten times smaller than JPEG
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2023-06-10 12:13:27
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JXL turn any image into just a few hundred bytes! The result might only be tangentially related to the input but it did it!
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DZgas Ж
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2023-06-10 12:19:25
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jpeg xl is 100 times smaller than jpeg if use d 25 😎
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jonnyawsom3
|
2023-06-10 12:45:52
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4000 times smaller than the original PNG - 3.8MB to 1.02KB
--resampling=8 -d 25 -e 9
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2023-06-10 12:46:02
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I'm honest to god amazed that it's still recognisable
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2023-06-10 12:51:29
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Oh... Interesting... Resampling still works when 'losslessly' transcoding a jpeg, and it does 'successfully' reconstruct, but only the top left corner
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Fox Wizard
|
2023-06-10 01:32:38
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Gotta make it even smaller <:KekDog:884736660376535040>
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jonnyawsom3
|
2023-06-10 01:40:12
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Removed metadata?
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Fox Wizard
|
2023-06-10 04:47:05
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That and removed transparency channel (no idea if it makes a difference in this case)
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jonnyawsom3
|
2023-06-10 07:37:23
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Huh... I think it was a standard Windows print screen, wonder why they made it have an alpha channel
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_wb_
|
2023-06-10 07:40:48
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MacOS screenshots have that too iirc
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w
|
2023-06-10 07:41:19
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because in windows you can do this
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_wb_
|
2023-06-10 07:42:17
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Then again in macOS if you take a screenshot of a window, I think it will have rounded corners and shadow so the alpha isn't trivial
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spider-mario
|
2023-06-10 08:24:10
|
environmental footprint? hopefully, they’re not referring to that discredited “CO₂/byte” model from the Shift Project
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Quackdoc
|
2023-06-10 08:34:57
|
well thats a fun take, he seems to have a couple wierd takes lol
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veluca
|
|
4000 times smaller than the original PNG - 3.8MB to 1.02KB
--resampling=8 -d 25 -e 9
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2023-06-10 08:39:15
|
I was about to say you could probably do better with avif, but in 1kb you barely can fit the header so...
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_wb_
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spider-mario
environmental footprint? hopefully, they’re not referring to that discredited “CO₂/byte” model from the Shift Project
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2023-06-10 08:40:04
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I didn't know about that project, but what's wrong with a CO2/byte model?
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2023-06-10 08:41:57
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It's very hard to put accurate numbers on what the cost is (and it constantly evolves as technology and energy sources evolve), but there has to be some overall cost per byte for storage and transfer
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2023-06-10 08:43:35
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Probably Google, AWS and Azure would be in the best position to make accurate estimates
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2023-06-10 08:45:10
|
CPU time does correspond to CO2 emissions, and so does storage time (assuming it's not completely cold storage), and so does network activity
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|
2023-06-10 08:51:45
|
In a yet-to-be-published article I am estimating the total yearly CO2 cost of storing digital photos to be currently equivalent to 10 million electric cars driving 20,000km, and growing (cost per MB is going down, but number of photos is going up faster)
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|
2023-06-10 08:52:26
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JXL could reduce that by 6 million cars
|
|
2023-06-10 08:53:30
|
But these are just ballpark numbers, could be I am wrong by maybe an order magnitude in either direction
|
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2023-06-10 08:53:53
|
Could be 500k cars, could be 50m cars, I dunno
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2023-06-10 08:59:00
|
Anyway, it's obviously not going to have huge environmental impact (compared to things like improving home insulation etc), but it certainly has _some_ impact
|
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spider-mario
|
|
_wb_
It's very hard to put accurate numbers on what the cost is (and it constantly evolves as technology and energy sources evolve), but there has to be some overall cost per byte for storage and transfer
|
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2023-06-10 08:59:23
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the problem is to assume a linear causal link between storage and CO₂ emissions
|
|
2023-06-10 08:59:47
|
you could divide any two quantities and get a value in “unit A / unit B”
|
|
2023-06-10 08:59:52
|
doesn’t mean that it’s very meaningful
|
|
2023-06-10 09:00:33
|
if I calculated my “LOCs written / ice creams eaten”, it would falsely seem to imply that eating an additional ice cream would lead to that many more LOCs written
|
|
2023-06-10 09:04:26
|
the thing is, the Shift Project is French, and so is that Twitter user
|
|
2023-06-10 09:04:40
|
which makes it slightly too likely to my taste that they are, in fact, alluding to that simplistic model
|
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_wb_
|
2023-06-10 09:06:31
|
But isn't there a straightforward causal link here? Storage takes storage media and storage media consume energy to produce and to keep 'spinning'...
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|
2023-06-10 09:09:00
|
Every petabyte of cloud storage does correspond to some amount of energy and resources. An amount that gets smaller every year thanks to technological advances and more efficient processes, but still...
|
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spider-mario
|
2023-06-10 09:11:03
|
right, but that amount of CO₂ relative to total CO₂ doesn’t have to be the same as the amount of additional storage relative to total storage
|
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Quackdoc
|
2023-06-10 09:11:32
|
indeed storage, enc/dec and also important;y bandwidth all are factors
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spider-mario
|
2023-06-10 09:12:01
|
if storing 1PB represents 5% of your footprint, and CPU usage the other 95%, and you increase that to 2PB, assuming that the footprint related to storage increases linearly, you have increased total CO₂ to 105% of what it previously was
|
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Quackdoc
|
2023-06-10 09:12:06
|
im not sure it's a useful metric myself, but there is a correlation
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spider-mario
|
2023-06-10 09:12:21
|
if you can reduce CPU usage in the process, you might even reduce your total footprint
|
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_wb_
|
2023-06-10 09:13:09
|
Yes, or vice versa, spending more energy on cpu might reduce total footprint if it reduces storage
|
|
2023-06-10 09:14:43
|
It's quite tricky since it depends on storage duration etc (for long-term storage it's more worth it to spend cpu to reduce storage)
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Quackdoc
|
2023-06-10 09:29:03
|
bandwidth is just as bad as storage too, so I wouldnt be surpized if storage + bandwidth is a couple factors higher.
|
|
2023-06-10 09:29:29
|
dont forget net is not a 1-1, there are often many stops along the way
|
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spider-mario
|
2023-06-10 09:29:55
|
from what I recall, a debunk of the claims from the Shift Project found that in video streaming, the most costly factor is actually just the energy used by the final display
|
|
2023-06-10 09:31:42
|
maybe we can argue that higher quality means that people will need to look at the screen for less time to figure out what is going on 😁
|
|
2023-06-10 09:32:00
|
or they’ll find it so beautiful that they will stare at it for longer 🥺
|
|
2023-06-10 09:33:00
|
or they’re already spending all their time in front of the screen anyway and will just maybe fill that time slightly differently
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derberg
|
|
afed
probably also implies that qq messenger uses the same engine
also telegram supports jpeg xl, it might be worth adding to the list
|
|
2023-06-10 07:40:35
|
Maybe due to it using Qt.
|
|
2023-06-10 07:41:14
|
For example, the outdated Matrix client fractal that uses GTK can display JXL as well
|
|
2023-06-10 07:43:01
|
Is telegram displaying JXL on several platforms?
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novomesk
|
2023-06-10 07:55:55
|
Only Telegram Desktop app on Linux and Windows. JXL on macOS could be supported by modifying of build scripts.
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jonnyawsom3
|
2023-06-10 10:03:54
|
"I use telegram as my photo viewer"
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cpc2
|
2023-06-10 10:36:26
|
Telegram is actually a good free cloud hosting solution lol
|
|
2023-06-10 10:36:54
|
I only use it to store files i want to keep readily available from any device
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jonnyawsom3
|
2023-06-10 11:02:10
|
Yeah, it's slow at times but there's nothing quite like it
|
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VcSaJen
|
2023-06-11 03:40:22
|
I know that Chrome refused to add JPEG XL in late 2022, but have there been any signal from Android OS? What about YouTube, Gmail and Google Search (using JXL in <picture>)? All those teams are different, right?
|
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|
BlueSwordM
|
|
VcSaJen
I know that Chrome refused to add JPEG XL in late 2022, but have there been any signal from Android OS? What about YouTube, Gmail and Google Search (using JXL in <picture>)? All those teams are different, right?
|
|
2023-06-11 03:41:30
|
Youtube will likely never get pre-generated JXL previews considering that you can just get an AVIF image extracted directly from an AV1 steam.
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lonjil
|
2023-06-11 04:43:57
|
Many channels upload custom thumbnails
|
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fab
|
|
VcSaJen
I know that Chrome refused to add JPEG XL in late 2022, but have there been any signal from Android OS? What about YouTube, Gmail and Google Search (using JXL in <picture>)? All those teams are different, right?
|
|
2023-06-11 07:19:19
|
Android ditched JXL for ultra HDR format
|
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VcSaJen
|
2023-06-11 07:32:09
|
"Ultra HDR" is JPEG, just like how jpegli is JPEG.
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username
|
2023-06-11 07:33:00
|
the "Ultra HDR" format just reminds me of JPEG XT
|
|
2023-06-11 07:33:11
|
is there even any real difference between the two?
|
|
2023-06-11 07:37:26
|
the "Ultra HDR" format just seems like JPEG XT but without alpha channel support or lossless support
|
|
2023-06-11 07:38:21
|
I haven't compared the specs but they probably store HDR a bit differently from each other
|
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jonnyawsom3
|
2023-06-11 08:04:19
|
Ultra HDR, JXT, jpegli with HDR metadata... Many ways of the same issue
|
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uis
|
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cpc2
Telegram is actually a good free cloud hosting solution lol
|
|
2023-06-11 11:23:35
|
Lol
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Traneptora
|
2023-06-12 01:00:04
|
well "Ultra HDR" is an extension of legacy jpeg
|
|
2023-06-12 01:00:14
|
whereas jpegli is just an encoder/decoder
|
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jonnyawsom3
|
2023-06-12 05:18:42
|
By default when turning a HDR JXL into a jpeg with djxl, it gets the HDR data added in the ICC4 or whatever it was called, I'm assuming it uses jpegli for that
|
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VEG
|
2023-06-12 03:55:58
|
Why Google didn't just use JPEG XT that seems like adds HDR and a lot of other stuff to the JPEG 1 in a backward compatible way 🤔
|
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VcSaJen
|
2023-06-12 04:03:18
|
I think there's patent concerns or something.
|
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_wb_
|
2023-06-12 04:14:17
|
nah I don't think there are patent concerns around JPEG XT
|
|
2023-06-12 04:20:10
|
no idea if there's a technical reason why they didn't just use JPEG XT or what exactly is different
|
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VEG
|
2023-06-12 04:20:27
|
Maybe they just didn't know about JPEG XT
|
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spider-mario
|
2023-06-12 04:37:03
|
I suspect they just wanted more flexibility
|
|
2023-06-12 04:37:51
|
the way that I remember JPEG XT being described seemed less flexible than “Ultra HDR”
|
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VEG
|
2023-06-12 04:39:00
|
"Ultra HDR" is also a horrible name. Some people might be confused and think that it's a completely new and modern format while it's just JPEG + some HDR data.
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_wb_
|
2023-06-12 05:07:41
|
It also sounds like it's "more" HDR than "regular" HDR
|
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lonjil
|
2023-06-12 05:19:51
|
I wonder what the efficiency of ultra HDR is
|
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veluca
|
|
lonjil
I wonder what the efficiency of ultra HDR is
|
|
2023-06-12 05:37:09
|
likely terrible
|
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jonnyawsom3
|
2023-06-12 07:54:42
|
Guess we'll have to wait and see if it's the same as what we already have
|
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_wb_
|
2023-06-12 07:59:41
|
It's basically tone mapped SDR + a gain map that scales the SDR values with the same factor for the 3 RGB components, right?
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